Hardware Dump

[skroo]

Since a lot of us have accumulated hardware over the years we probably no longer use, I was thinking about the possibility of setting up a hardware dump at Defcon. Chances are it's too late to do it this year, but what I'm basically proposing is an unmanned table or two where people can leave hardware for others to take for free. This shouldn't impact on our hardware vendors since most of the stuff that's going to end up there is likely nickel-and-dime or seriously oddball anyway.

Thoughts?

[Thorn]

Great idea, skroo. I think my wife will rent a semi-trailer if she thinks it will move stuff out of the basement.

Of course, the real trick will be not coming back with more than what I'd left with...

[Deviant Ollam]

hmm... last year i bought two of Uncle Ira's ruggedized utility company laptops because they looked pretty bad ass. when i got them home i found them to be pre-broken for my convenience. (which is rare for Meco... never had a prob with their offerings before)

chances are that they are easily fixable, but -- like Thorn -- the people with whom i live are getting fussy about how additional hardware shelves keep seeming to materialize in our house's spare bedroom. i'll likely be unloading them as giveaways this year, either at the free hardware table or during my talk.

heh, a little piece of you dies inside the day when you realize that you simply don't have the time to tinker with every whack-ass piece of hardware that you've packed away. :cry:

[astcell]

I'm ahead of you. I already offered my personal Toughbook in trade for whoever offers me the most alcohol.

I have dozens printers that need a new home, hundreds of AC cords, and about 75 "ancient" computers, the average being PIII 800Mhz with 256mb ram and 20gb hd.

I will see what I can bring.

[A]

<shameless plug>

Well as Uncle Ira's magical world of oddball hardware is not going to be at con this year, there will be a serious lack of such things to give away in the scavenger hunt.

We reserve the right to refuse anything we think to be total junk, but the scavenger hunt would be a great outlet for some of your "junk".

</shameless plug>

[KeLviN]

ira's out?!

[Siviak]

as I have mentioned I have more storage than I know what to do with... bring all you can and if we don't get rid of it at defcon I feel sure that with all the people that make weekend trips out here I can find it all a good home

[TheCotMan]

as I have mentioned I have more storage than I know what to do with... bring all you can and if we don't get rid of it at defcon I feel sure that with all the people that make weekend trips out here I can find it all a good home

Be careful with that offer... some old junk requires extra fees in order to be dumped legally. Heavy metals used in boards along with other chemical used in the creation of older boards sometimes cause old electronics to be classified as needing special processing when being dumped.

This may not be an issue now, but if you were to move or get rid of that stuff, it could cost a bit of money.

[John D]

ira's out?!


Yup, Meco man decided not to sell this year. Claimed he wanted to enjoy DC once instead of working. He isn't even driving down, he's on the same flight as me.

-JohnD

[Siviak]

Be careful with that offer....

you have a good point... I resend my offer until further planning has been completed.

thank you and good day.

[John D]

Be careful with that offer... some old junk requires extra fees in order to be dumped legally. Heavy metals used in boards along with other chemical used in the creation of older boards sometimes cause old electronics to be classified as needing special processing when being dumped.

This may not be an issue now, but if you were to move or get rid of that stuff, it could cost a bit of money.

It is about to get a lot worse too...

At work I have to deal with RoHS (Reduction of Hazardous Substances) which is required by 07/06 and WEEE(Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment) which is required by 08/05. These are both directives out of the European Union. RoHS bans the use of lead or cadmium (and four other substances for a total of 6 right now, it can change) and WEEE requires manufacturers to have a way to dispose of their devices and track the disposal.

Most of you are thinking, well that is Europe and not here, well California and Massachusets have similar legislation (and I assume other states will follow). Japan and China also are doing something similar to this. I assume it will eventually be around the world.

In the end what does this mean? Once implemented in the US it will be a pain to dispose of any electronics that has been soldered with lead based solder. Which is pretty much everything out there right now. Now some states have added a tax to electronics so that the disposal is paid for by the consumer at the purchase and they have free drop off sites (which means a minimal increase in price for electronics). The other problem will be when everyone switches over to a non-lead based solder. The alternatives have to be done at a higher temperatures (potentially damaging the parts themselves) and look like crap (no more shiny solder joints, they will all look like cold solder joints). In the beginning I believe there will be a quality problem till everyone figures out how to do it right.

[astcell]

So since I pay $8 extra to buy a monitor, does that cover disposal after I am done with it?

[John D]

So since I pay $8 extra to buy a monitor, does that cover disposal after I am done with it?

In California I believe so, at least that is what I hear, I don't live there.

Actually I looked it up http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/Electronics/Act2003/Stakeholder/Updates/050324.htm

and yes, you just need to find a drop off bin somewhere.

-JohnD

[TheCotMan]

In California I believe so... you just need to find a drop off bin somewhere.

Sometimes, Fry's and other places have had "recycling days" where they encourage people to bring in old monitors and junk to drop off for "free."

Also, sometimes counties will have "toxic and hazardous chemicals dump days" where you can dump stuff off for free-- maybe computers are now on these lists too. (?)

[Clp727]

I read an article posted somewhere on line that stated that vintage computers are becoming the rage for collectors these days. I tried to google for the article but didn't find it. I did, however, find this; http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/27/AR2005062701770.html

Google turned up tons of web pages devoted to old computers, and related hardware. Wow...I thought all this stuff I had stashed away was worthless!!

Google rules!

[Clp727]

Oh my god! I just checked out one the links from my Google search (http://www.oldcomputers.net/) and they have an IBM 5100. The website says it cost US $19,975 w/ 64K RAM. That was in 1975!!

[hackajar]

Oh my god! I just checked out one the links from my Google search (http://www.oldcomputers.net/) and they have an IBM 5100. The website says it cost US $19,975 w/ 64K RAM. That was in 1975!!

Cool site, I burned some valueble work time on there!

[skroo]

I thought all this stuff I had stashed away was worthless!!

Heh, before you get too excited, you might want to check out what your stuff is going for on eBay. You've gotta have something seriously rare and/or prehistoric for it to have any real value; C64s and Atari 2600s and the like are dime-a-dozen.

[Clp727]

True. The stuff that I have is worthless. But it is kinda cool that some of the older hardware still has value. I guess it could be compared to cars.

[Thorn]

Oh my god! I just checked out one the links from my Google search (http://www.oldcomputers.net/) and they have an IBM 5100. The website says it cost US $19,975 w/ 64K RAM. That was in 1975!!
My father was working for IBM at the time, so I was able to use a 5100 back then. My friends and I had been programming APL on 370 mainframes. Being able to use the built-in APL was amazing, because it was an actual computer with a built in terminal.

[skroo]

My father was worked for IBM at the time, so I was able to use a 5100 back then. My friends and I had been programming APL on 370 mainframes. Being able to use the built-in APL was amazing, because it was an actual computer with a built in terminal.

Amusingly, it's also the key ingredient in some rather odd time-travel related stuff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor).

[HCentral]

I The other problem will be when everyone switches over to a non-lead based solder. The alternatives have to be done at a higher temperatures (potentially damaging the parts themselves) and look like crap (no more shiny solder joints, they will all look like cold solder joints). In the beginning I believe there will be a quality problem till everyone figures out how to do it right.

On the flip side, it's a good chance to pick up some cheap stock that will skyrocket when that one company figures out how to do it right. I agree there will be snotty, faulty joints at the beginning, but that's what the RoHS phase-in period is for. Manufacturers should be getting non-component-attachment lead out of their designs now and scrambling to develop/test/debug/implement a lead-free replacement immediately. </sarcasm>I'm sure everything will go as planned. <sarcasm>

[HCentral]

Sometimes, Fry's and other places have had "recycling days" where they encourage people to bring in old monitors and junk to drop off for "free."

Also, sometimes counties will have "toxic and hazardous chemicals dump days" where you can dump stuff off for free-- maybe computers are now on these lists too. (?)

In my town, Best Buy and Circuit City have thse garbage can-looking recycling baskets in their stores but they are only for cellphones and small rechargeable batteries. I like to swipe (is this theft??) cellphones out of there when nobody is looking. Radio Shacks also have free battery recycling. I've never seen free monitor recycling around here but it would be nice.

[[Syntax]]

I like all of you have a collection of stuff. Alot of it is project stuff, that I just havent had time to mess with. I also have my old PC collection, Macintosh LE or LS whichever one was the first model to have floppy and hd, previous to that they had dual floppy. Part of my collection (Commodore 64, Atari 2600, Tandy 1000, TRS80, a DEC System 3000 I think)..

But along with all that stuff is piles of items that are collecting dust, Id like a toughbook, even if broken, I repair laptops all the time.

I passed by Iras booth every year just to at least ask "what the hell is that?"

[HCentral]

Obvious newbie question but who is Ira?

[Deviant Ollam]

Obvious newbie question but who is Ira?Ira Moser, or "Uncle Ira" as he is more commonly known at DefCon, is the owner of Moser Electronics Corp (MECO).

Typically the vendor with the most eclectic selection of stuff, Ira's table at DefCon often features ultra-ruggedized field tools used by utility companies, military, etc. old radios and communication gear, old but rugged laptops, and other wild shit. (i believe Ira had for sale an ejection seat from a MiG jet)

Ira's also a goon and an all-around cool frood. I've heard that he's cutting back on his numerous activities this year at DefCon in order to enjoy the event more and not work 110% of the time he's there.

[skroo]

']Macintosh LE or LS whichever one was the first model to have floppy and hd, previous to that they had dual floppy.

IIRC, the Mac Plus (http://www.apple-history.com/frames/plus.html) was the first to support an HDD, though it was external; the first models to take an internal drive were the Mac II (http://www.apple-history.com/frames/II.html) and Mac SE (http://www.apple-history.com/frames/se.html).

[John D]

Obvious newbie question but who is Ira?

Well his website is down (just has a splash page) www.meco.org hopefully it will be up soon.

Here is local newspaper article about him: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2002/0217/cover.html

Here is an article DT wrote about him:
http://underground-online.troybrophy.com/iu/archive/issue17/farm/

He is pretty much the Sandford and Sons of cool exotic hardware. If you have a chance and your are in Seattle you should try to make it out to MECO World Domination HeadQuarters. It is a crazy place.

JohnD

[HCentral]

Well his website is down (just has a splash page) www.meco.org hopefully it will be up soon.

Here is local newspaper article about him: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2002/0217/cover.html

Here is an article DT wrote about him:
http://underground-online.troybrophy.com/iu/archive/issue17/farm/

He is pretty much the Sandford and Sons of cool exotic hardware. If you have a chance and your are in Seattle you should try to make it out to MECO World Domination HeadQuarters. It is a crazy place.

JohnD

Daym. Cool stuff. I'm suprised I never heard of this guy.

[zeratul]

hardware dump using my blue tooth? is it posible?

[TheCotMan]

hardware dump using my blue tooth? is it posible?
within the context of this thread, your question does not make much sense. Are you looking to give away some bluetooth enabled device at a hardware dump table at DefCon?

[[Syntax]]

IIRC, the Mac Plus (http://www.apple-history.com/frames/plus.html) was the first to support an HDD, though it was external; the first models to take an internal drive were the Mac II (http://www.apple-history.com/frames/II.html) and Mac SE (http://www.apple-history.com/frames/se.html).

You are correct, I was too lasy to look, its just rotting out in my garage but its an SE.. and Im still waiting for clarification as to what his bluetooth is going to be doing..

[Hardware]

I'm ahead of you. I already offered my personal Toughbook in trade for whoever offers me the most alcohol.

I have dozens printers that need a new home, hundreds of AC cords, and about 75 "ancient" computers, the average being PIII 800Mhz with 256mb ram and 20gb hd.

I will see what I can bring.
he he that's my computer right now :)
maybe i could find a power supply for my dell i boughgt for $10 it's an old latitude CP

[haden]

this is a great idea ive got a few old bits and pieces here and thier and id probably endup leaving with a trunk load of new pieces of junk

edit: anybody wishing to be rid of a few things sooner than the con can simply contact me and ill see about paying for the shipping, looking mainly for an older laptop that has linux can be broken or working may even be willing to pay for it

[LosT]

Please don't get me started on the RoHS stuff...

Know how much garbage is in a car battery? Tried using the compliant solder yet? Seen the cost increase for production?

Yet we comply. *sigh*

LosT

[loki151]

you could always bring something to give to the newbie like me :D

[haden]

speaking o vintage computers becomeing collector pieces ive got a Digital DECpc 425se Color laptopwith a bad battery that still works but doesnt have an os on the hdd ill be bringing it to the table as a drop off unless some one wants it before then

[ilusionofreedom]

sounds like a great idea! I love getting my hands on old hardware and trying to build something usefull out of it. this being said I have a good amount of"useless crap to get rid of.( but how can I ever let it go?)

[skroo]

Hm. It sounds like there's some genuine interest in doing this.

I know I started the thread on this, but would really prefer if someone else could take over any actual running or organisation this might need - I'm going to be busy enough gooning as it is, so really shouldn't try to take on more stuff than I can reasonably handle.

So, anyone want to try to make this an official event (if it can even qualify as one)? Bear in mind that it will require some space (which is not, contrary to some things that I've heard, as available as air) and some bodies to keep the hardware organised (which keeps people from having to dig through it, and it can't be allowed to cause an obstruction).

[LosT]

Who is going to be responsible for clearing up the stuff that is left behind? That could be a real problem....

On a positive note, I have some odd stuff to bring for the table...

LosT

[skroo]

Who is going to be responsible for clearing up the stuff that is left behind? That could be a real problem....

Let's work out the specifics behind making it actually happen first... So far, disposal isn't a problem because this isn't happening.

On a positive note, I have some odd stuff to bring for the table...

There is no table at this point. Until someone steps up and takes the time to put this together, there's no table, no hardware dump, nothing much more than this thread.

So, to recap: anyone stepping forward to put this together?

[TheCotMan]

I heard that Ira did not setup a table last year. Do you know if he is planning to setup a table this year? If so, and he has many tables, you think he would be willing to allocate part of a table (with raised walls/partitions) for people to dump/swap stuff for free? Someone else would need to build a car\dboard partition and sign about the stuff in that space being free/exchange and is not related to Ira's stuff-- just aplace for it to be stored.

Though I have met him, and have purchased things from him in the past, he won't know me any better than the occasional Defcon customer.

Anyone feel like asking him?

If not, perhaps someone else staffing a table might be willing to allocate table space for a hardware dump/free stuff in the vendor area.

A dump could be informal too. Perhaps people could bring their junk/tech to the forums meet and announce what they are giving away as part of an announcement. (If there will be an "introduce yourself" period, then that could be a time for people to offer tech. Anything not taken could go to a table in the vendor room.

[erehwon]

I'm ahead of you. I already offered my personal Toughbook in trade for whoever offers me the most alcohol.

How much Woodford Reserve Bourbon would you want to trade for your Toughbook? :biggrin:

[astcell]

How much Woodford Reserve Bourbon would you want to trade for your Toughbook? :biggrin:

Actually no one came forward so I sold it for $140, the guy still owes me $20 if he is reading this.

[converge]

While I'm out drudging things up, is anyone going to take this on and/or make it happen? I know some folks are already way too busy with other aspects of con, but I think general response for the hardware exchange/dump was that this would be really cool..

..didn't want to see a good idea die without reason.

[astcell]

I have two laptops I would want to sell, one is 18 months old and the other is about 8 months old. Great price and specs, and yes Defcon would be the place to sell it. We really do need a booth!

[skroo]

..didn't want to see a good idea die without reason.

Welp, I'm rolling out with a Jeep full of shit that I need to get out of my closet - a mixed bag of x86, Mac, and other stuff. One way or another it's going, and the price on everything is exactly $0. I don't have the time to organise this in any sort of meaningful way, but figure that at the very least a few of us can get together, take over a corner somewhere, and dump whatever we've got to let go. Maybe printing up some flyers just to guide people towards it wouldn't hurt.

[LosT]

I have more hardware than I know what to do with. Lots will arrive in a big white van and be distributed freely. Those who are more generous to the LostboY (me) will be rewarded accordingly.

LosT

[sk00t]

Welp, I'm rolling out with a Jeep full of shit that I need to get out of my closet - a mixed bag of x86, Mac, and other stuff. One way or another it's going, and the price on everything is exactly $0. I don't have the time to organise this in any sort of meaningful way, but figure that at the very least a few of us can get together, take over a corner somewhere, and dump whatever we've got to let go. Maybe printing up some flyers just to guide people towards it wouldn't hurt.

Pardon the shameless (self|contest)-promotion, but if you don't mine going to the trouble to load an OS up on something, and it has an ethernet port, you could make it an entry in 0TB (http://forum.defcon.org/forumdisplay.php?f=337).

My current plan is that the scoreboard / list of targets won't disclose what hardware is what, so it will be kind of a grab bag. I have quite a few entries that are folks looking for an interesting way to unload some gear.

</plug>

[TheCotMan]

Pardon the shameless (self|contest)-promotion, but if you don't mine going to the trouble to load an OS up on something, and it has an ethernet port, you could make it an entry in 0TB (http://forum.defcon.org/forumdisplay.php?f=337).

My current plan is that the scoreboard / list of targets won't disclose what hardware is what, so it will be kind of a grab bag. I have quite a few entries that are folks looking for an interesting way to unload some gear.

</plug>

This is a reply to a post from the planning for Defcon 13 and later for Defcon 14. We have a rule about replying to old threads, and one of the reasons is that the people that proposed the ideas from an old thread may not be around to answer them. If skroo has PM enabled, you could try to PM him on the forums and cite this article, but I seem to recall that he disabled his PM.

Closing thread...

This way, if the topic comes up again for a hardware dump, a new thread can be started.