Early Caravan Planning

[AgentOJ]

On the way to DC X, I made the 30ish hour drive from the midwest with a couple friends. We drove straight, so that kinda sucked since I was a zombie when I arrived at defcon, and the shambling remains of a man by the time I got back home. Now that I've had a month to recover, I decided I really did enjoy the drive. Is there any interest to form a caravan from the midwest for DC 11? Perhaps meet up in Chicago and head west from there. I know this is incredibly early, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

AgentOJ

[ashman]

Well, I started in Springfield, MO and picked up some friends in Tulsa, from there we drove pretty much straight through... I don't know if I want to make that trip again, it was pretty much similar experience to yours by the sound of it. Although it probably would be considerably easier to get all my *accessories* to the Con via automobile...

[Verruckt]

hey i would be interested... what is your proposed route? 80? im in kc so, 70 is the main drag here... but definitely sounds cool.:D

[AgentOJ]

First off, we took 80 most of the way across the great plains states. Driving straight through sucked in the sense of burnout I felt, so I figure instead of making a cannonball run again, I'd give myself an extra day, and crash at some motel 8's or whatever at night. If we had enough people we could check out a block of rooms and sardine people into them, saving a bit of cash. It'd also be interesting to have a bit of pre-con chat with other like-minded people on the way out there.

AgentOJ

[AgentOJ]

And yes, well, it is quite a bit easier to bring special "accesories" via car than plane. That, or perhaps taking the amtrak would be kinda cool. Reserve a hax0r traincar. Hell, if we got enough people from the midwest to do the train thing, maybe we could get a group discount ;)

AgentOJ

[converge]

I am working on a New England Caravan. If timing were good, the caravans could actually meet and storm vegas. Thoughts of a contest similar to deathrace for the eastern folk have also been raised.

[Verruckt]

Originally posted by AgentOJ
And yes, well, it is quite a bit easier to bring special "accesories" via car than plane. That, or perhaps taking the amtrak would be kinda cool. Reserve a hax0r traincar. Hell, if we got enough people from the midwest to do the train thing, maybe we could get a group discount ;)

AgentOJ

THAT would be kick ass!!! Can you imagine placing the reservations?

"now, is there going to be a place in my cabin for me to plug a surge protector in ?"

It could be war-tracking all the way to the con... interesting.

Perhaps pick a couple of meeting points for everyone to hook up and just reserve a whole car ??? Ahhh, the possiblilities.:D

[octalpus]

Actually... for you foks from the south and/or midwest... or heck, anwhere along the way... you've got a Texan here that is all for the train thing! I really like the train. It's not the fastest method, but it's scenic, it's (generally) cheaper than flying, there are much fewer security hassles, you can get up and walk around, and having a bunch of friends to bide the time would make it REALLY fun!

[Verruckt]

oh... i think we have the makings of an excellent time... too bad its a year away...

I have never ridden the train, so that alone would be an experience for me... but just not having to worry about driving, thats a plus. wonder how long of a trip it is??? Is anyone an Amtrak vet? Is it like the bus, stopping at every "population 4" shithole? Or is it mainly the larger towns? ah, who cares? will chalk it up as a 'vacation' :D

[Verruckt]

a little research on www.amtrak.com shows that going to either Needles, Ca or Los Angeles, Ca is mandatory...

But prices were in the mid-300's from Kansas City. A bit more than the plane, but I can't see having as much fun from 35,000'...

I wonder if we got enough peeps to meet in a certain location if we actually could rent a car???

<update- looking into it>

[boogah]

whatever form of mass transit you kids end up using let me know. i'd like to be able to offer every caravan that's serious about hauling themselves out to dc next year a subdomain off deathrace2k.org [i.e. location.deathrace2k.org]. it shouldn't be hard for me to slice off a 5-10mb bit of hd for hosting something as simple as that.

[Verruckt]

Hey thanks alot! I would love to volunteer to put in some sweat for the midwest effort.

So does this mean it's official now? :D

[J3di]

Originally posted by boogah
whatever form of mass transit you kids end up using let me know. i'd like to be able to offer every caravan that's serious about hauling themselves out to dc next year a subdomain off deathrace2k.org [i.e. location.deathrace2k.org]. it shouldn't be hard for me to slice off a 5-10mb bit of hd for hosting something as simple as that.

or you could just redirect the subdomains to a different server, if necessary.

[AgentOJ]

...Looks like I started something here, lol. Well, first, we'd need to know the exact dates we'd all be in vegas for. The amtrak fares (according to a brief visit to their site this morning) vary, and are cheaper if you are a student or have AAA. As Verruckt stated above, there's no direct line into vegas, and we'd need to take a bus from Needles, CA, Los Angeles, or SLC (maybe reno too, didn't check to see if they had a station) into vegas. The bus ride would suck, but...if we do have enough people on the train...it would be a defcon bus ride, which would rock. It looks like the train/bus ride totals about 2 days from chicago (I'm just using that as a general landmark here...), according to the amtrak schedule. Thus, we'd all need to take a little more time off of work or whatever to accomodate the extra travel time (scratch this if you did the midwest drive last year, it'd be about the same length of time). The reasons I would prefer a train to driving/flying are:
1. A lot less security checkpoint bullshit that wastes time
2. Better food than on airplanes, from my experience
3. Smoking cars for those of you who smoke (I finally quit!), since this would be an overnight train.
4. You can walk around and stretch all you want.
5. No times when electronics are prohibited. Again, as mentioned above, war-tracking (esp through the stops) would be a possibility. At least more of one than at 35000 ft.
6. Sleeper cars. A comfortable place (generally) to crash.
7. No driving. Driving 12 hours straight on one leg of my trip out to Defcon this year was not my cup of tea. I was practically hallucinating by the time I pulled into Vegas from lack of (comfortable) sleep. And no traffic jams. Or road construction. Or god damn cops to worry about when I'm going 90 in that 75 stretch w/no traffic.
8. This could be cooler than a 2-3 day caravan because we could all chill out, chat, etc. It'd be like a mini-Defcon on the way to Defcon. Maybe we could play spot the Defcon Train Fed!
9. I dunno, I just think it would be badass to take a train out there. Scenic, and all that jazz.

There would have to be a lot of planning involved in order to pull something like this off, but hell, we've got a year. Looks like there's definately some interest in this, so let's keep spouting off ideas/comments/concerns over a Defcon caravan, railroad style.

AgentOJ

[converge]

Might I suggest those interested in the actual planning of the coordination of caravan(s) be in contact with each other directly... Obviously if the New England caravan is to meet up with yall, there will be an element of additional timing on our part that relies on decided logistics from others further west.

Thanks for the hosting offer boogah. I will throw a lot of the planning stuff up on lostboxen.net (full url available upon actual progress).

Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Mass, et al... and any other caravan planners eastward of the con:
Email: c0nv3r9@hushmail.com if you are interested in joining the caravan to dc0x0b. I will start keeping track of people and update as I figure more out.

[Verruckt]

<terrible A-team quote follows>

"I love it when a plan comes together" :D


Well, probably the best thing to do, would be to break it up by regions. Then maybe someone or a group, from each region work on getting train info together.

Am I the only one that hates amtrak's site?

[AgentOJ]

Amtrak's site is rather confusing for my often [tired] [drunk] [caffinated] [insert your own word here] mind. Anyway, I'd definately like to be one of the organizers for some sort of mass exodus out west for DC 11. c0nv3r9, looks like you've got the eastern states covered, I'd be more than willing to take the north-central states. It's too bad we don't know quite when Defcon will be next year as of yet, but for now we can work out basic differences in the train timetables (or driving times if we're doing it that way, but I like this train idea, it's been growing on me) for the central and eastern states, perhaps get a general poll going of what city should be the "central gathering point" for those that can make it there, get a list of ppl interested in possibly joining this, etc. Feel free to email me at AgentOJ_@hotmail.com to discuss this. Anyway, time to head back to that programming assignment that I don't want to do...

AgentOJ

P.S. Anyone wanna get a listserv set up for this thread in particular?

[octalpus]

I considered Amtrak last year... now that it was pointed out, I remember it was the bus thing that convinced me not to do it. I love the train... I don't do busses. I can't stand the thought of anything more than an hour in a bus.

[astcell]

I would not have my worst enemy in a bus, they suck but there are more women on busses than men. Trains cost the same as planes so save the time for drinking.

[Verruckt]

I'm sure there is a way to get there that does not involve a bus... I will just call in the morning.:D

Now, on to a more fun topic...

http://www.amtrak.com/press/atk20020122009.html

"...and can surf the Web onboard the train with a simple to use, slim and powerful Compaq iPAQ Pocket PC. There are no additional fares or fees associated with the Yahoo! Internet train or use of onboard Internet access."

nuf said :D

[ashman]

Well the slightly longer trip time would make up for the whole NOT HAVING TO DRIVE crap, plus the ability to sleep at some point over the trip would be nice. Amtrak does sound quite entertaining. Damn, this is starting to sound rather interesting... I'd be up for renting a car at wherever we'd end up (if not vegas) and taking it from there. Hmmm, interesting...

[converge]

Well, there are a few things that need to be done.

Yes, the date is undefined.. but the people from closest to furthest need to determine a few keys things.

When will the eastern uber caravan collide upon Vegas? DC will be on date x. Next closest caravan meet will be x + y days away. And so on. I personally prefer getting to the con at least a day or so early to chill and meet others (would also give good time for the caravan to party it up pre-con).

When and where will other caravans heading west meet up with your caravan. Highly dependent on the above, but also includes such things as geographical area that your caravan covers. For example, the New England caravan will most likely meet somewhere in Mass. or slightly northwestern of it on a specific day, and maybe hang in the area with computers powered to let stragglers get there. The next group of drivers will have a date/place for our next waypoint, and so on. Determining the best route from east to west may help dictate where converging spots might be best, and not out of the way.

Planning it this way can allow for an early jump start. After all the travel time between states is relatively predictable. Simply plug our plans into when the actual date for the con and we are done.

I am not particularly interested in the train. My portion of planning will be for those in the driving mood. If I travel by ground, I will be bringing gear and a car for the wardrive, with the luxuries mentioned earlier. Elsewise, I would fly there in 1/4 of the time for a fraction of the cost.

[astcell]

Have you seen that Pontiac commercial? It is called "Where would you go in a Pontiac?" They will give you a car for a weekend and you are supposed to have fun in it and return it (they want you and your peers to buy it).

Someone call Pontiac and ask for a few hundred cars for the next con!

[ashman]

LOL, I just had a thought... let's bring an AP and keep it going at all times, make it easy for stragglers to find us. Post kismet/Netstumbler results of the AP's GPS coordinates on an hourly basis. Broadcast the SSID as "DC-Caravan". Just a thought. :)

[Verruckt]

Originally posted by ashman
LOL, I just had a thought... let's bring an AP and keep it going at all times, make it easy for stragglers to find us. Post kismet/Netstumbler results of the AP's GPS coordinates on an hourly basis. Broadcast the SSID as "DC-Caravan". Just a thought. :)

Oh hell yes! :D

As for the Train-Con...

I would think that we should find the route first (that works for the majority) and then everyone else plan (from their region) on hooking up with that train, so that it can be ONE caravan... Logistically it will be a bitch. But in the long run, I think it will be worth it.:D

[bigezy]

Seeing as how New Englanders would have to start first. Maybe we should decide what day we want to get in to Vegas. So we can work back from there.

[converge]

I think the actual arrival date could be decided on by the collective, not necessarily the closest or furthest from vegas. The timing of meets in between is where depedancy comes into play.

As far as the New England path, it would probably be best for us to plan the actual path to vegas, seeing we have the most distance to cover. From that point, others could plan meeting points along the path (with sub-points in other areas if they so deemed). That would keep people from travelling off course to meet up with other caravans.

Its probably safe to assume that the next con will be a similar config.. fri/sat/sun with blackhat preceding. Are there any blackhat attendees interested in the caravan that have to be there by a certain date?

[Verruckt]

Im assuming most people dont go to Blackhat due to the co$t...

Really for something like this, we need to just go for what works for the majority. Democracy in action. I do agree though, that perhaps it should be mapped from a point on the east coast, and everyone else will work to meet up with that train.

What is a fair origination point on the right coast? Baaston? NY? DC?

[bigezy]

Maybe we should get some type of straw poll to find out who is thinking of doing this. We have plenty of time to plan this. I might go to Blackhat, but, if this thing really takes off, I can always go to Blackhat in September.

[converge]

I will look at a map this week and post my thoughts about it by the weekend.

[converge]

Here's a good guess at dates for the next con. Blackhat has announced 2003 dates:

USA 2003 Briefings & Taining
Caesars Palace, Las Vegas
Training: July 28-29, 2003
Briefings: July 30-31, 2003

http://www.blackhat.com/html/bh-link/briefings.html

[ck3k]

Is blackhat worth attending if your are in the area for defcon?

[blackwave]

Originally posted by ck3k
Is blackhat worth attending if your are in the area for defcon?

I was thinking about going next year... taking a week in vegas... though i hate vegas.

[astcell]

Blackhat costs like a grand and from what I heard this past year, folks said it would have been fine if they received a $2500 rebate.

Get there early enough for midgetcon!

[sentralkor]

I'm hoping to go to DC11 this year, and I think the train idea is a good one. Driving across the US to Vegas would suck big-time, and probably cost more than taking a train or some kind of carpool thing. If there's anyone else close to WI I would appreciate a heads-up email (sentralkor@hotmail.com) or something so we can plan out the trip.

[highwizard]

Originally posted by sentralkor
I'm hoping to go to DC11 this year, and I think the train idea is a good one. Driving across the US to Vegas would suck big-time, and probably cost more than taking a train or some kind of carpool thing. If there's anyone else close to WI I would appreciate a heads-up email (sentralkor@hotmail.com) or something so we can plan out the trip.

You are correct, that driving across the US does cost more then the Train/Airfare. Often though, the Journey to where you are going is as or more fun then the arrival itself.

We have a Caravan from the Lower N/E (Leaving from Philadelphia to be exact). There will be a site setup for it soon, incase anyone wants to get in on our whole whopping two car caravan. Hopefully by the time the Con roles around we will have a larger contingent.

Though, most people from this far East, are smart enough to fly, we still think it would be a much more enjoyable experience to drive. We will be stopping along the way, to stay over night. However, we will be camping out and not staying in a hotel room until we get to Vegas.

I'll post a URL when we set the site up (sometime in 2003).
If you want any information prior to then, you can email us at
caravan@geekvote.com

[converge]

Have you already planned your route and timeframe across the US? If so, I could make my plans to meet up at a common point in PA. If not, I still have to get my ass in gear and figure shit out so others can start tapping onto the "Defcon Trail 2003". ok... that is a little cheesy

[robincorgan]

now I been thinking... any texas people around? I know I'm new here, but I believe I saw one or two. I know me and boogieman would be up to traveling to DC via amtrak. being my first time and all... newbie faux pas! lemme here from the texas people via email: robincorgan@yahoo.com

[highwizard]

The East Coast Defcon Caravan Page will be up soon. I will post the URL as soon as we are done.