PSA: The Riviera is not the Alexis Park... whole new world of security, people

[Deviant Ollam]

so defcon is still two days away from officially starting and already some in the community came near an arrest / whole world of shit. it was disturbing since they hadn't actually done anything wrong, but in defense of the hotel, these people were being minor asstards.

since we arrived ealier today, we've been scouting the grounds, getting to know the new buildings, etc. we looked at the floor space, parking, skyboxes, etc. a little while before sushicon, a handful of people went to find the "top of the riv with the closed down roof pool" which was where they thought the night parties were held. it turns out the "top of the riv" is the penthouse level of the monaco tower, not the old rooftop pool area (which is now totally closed off)

they took elevators and stairways up, trying randomly to find "roof" access (i'm telling the story secondhand since, due to an attack of good judgement, i had no part in this excursion) and wound up being asked by a security guard what they were up to. instead of just saying "we're looking for the 'top of the riv' space" they just mumbled a half-response and rushed off.

meeting them in the lobby to catch a taxi together for sushi, i noticed almost instantly that far too many security people were around. in almost no time, our group was surrounded by security staffers of all stripes (some uniformed, some plainclothes, some armed, some not) who produced immediate requests of identification and deminds for a summary of what the guys had been doing in the building.

it could have easily turned really really sour if not for the fact that one of us (me, actually) was a registered hotel guest. that, plus the fact that i kept insisting the guys stop talking a mile a minute about defcon, roof parties, sushi, and god knows what other excuses were spewing from their semi-panicked brains.

all turned out totally well, of course. the hotel knew no one had committed a crime and just wanted to make sure that no wandering dellinquintes were venturing through their halls for no purpose. if you're staying at the Riv, be polite and you'll be given plenty of slack... if you're not a guest here but merely a defcon attendee... i'd suggest you seriously consider your actions before you hit the gas pedal.

there is a chance that this defcon is going to end very badly for some people who don't realize that vegas strip hotels don't fuck around.

[astcell]

atch your buddy, take care of one another. When it is party time in the military we all are unofficially responsible for those one rank lower than us, so we all have mentors and watchdogs. I hope we can keep the policing in-house.

[theprez98]

atch your buddy, take care of one another. When it is party time in the military we all are unofficially responsible for those one rank lower than us, so we all have mentors and watchdogs. I hope we can keep the policing in-house.
And if the CO and XO are drinking at your house, you are responsible for them, too!

Stay safe!

[goathead]

Deviant, I was expecting that things would be considerably tighter than our previous experiences at the outdoor and non-gaming AP. I've been getting attention for wearing a backpack in the casino, so I'd agree that the Riv will be sensitive to any antics.

Growing pains I suppose.

-Goathead

p.s. drop me a PST, would be happy to buy ya a drink here at the old folks bar downstairs.

[rudeboy]

To be honest I think that it's really time to take this whole "evolve or die" message to heart and reduce the number of security goons by a half, or two thirds, etc. No real need for the old numbers of them in a casino environment.

Select a portion of your best mature, level headed, moderator types to bridge the cultural differences that may come up between us and the normals (including Riv staff) and send the rest to enjoy the con.

Redirecting resources I believe is exactly the right thing to do. This morning as an example as apparently safety inspections needed to be conducted (sorry hearing this second hand, someone in the know please chime in). Were there redshirts available to help the hotel staff turning people back, providing information, and clearing the hallway?

DONT GET ME WRONG, THE GOONS ARE GREAT AND THEY ENSURE WE HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE CON.

But it just looked like a cluster this morning...
to me DefCon had crashed and around noon it was rebooted

Enough rant, we're all enjoying living through the growing pains, I really just want to hear other thoughts on cultural changes "evolve or die" that apply to DefCon (including the staff). I hope all goes well for us this weekend.

[rudeboy]

Following up on my own post I heard what happened with the inspector. Only the goons will really know if they need more or less goons next year, but basically I think the attendees need to listen to and follow goon instructions to clear the hall if they had been issued. From where I was (deep in the hall) I didn't see or hear anything. So again, good job on a safe year and see you next year.

P.S. Glad that hotel security was 98% pleased with us. That HAS to be a record.

[ndex]

Seems to me, the reason there have had to be "so many" goons in the past is that there was an explosion in popularity of the event (internet revolution etc.) which appeared to correlate to a surge in attendance by genus fuctardus.

The goons can regulate behavior that no hotel - even in Las Vegas, is prepared for on the DefCon scale. The only reason we got the run of the AP is because "the Goons(tm)" had a business relationship with hotel security. The Riviera has a casino, their security is a completely different breed of hardass because of the state gambling comission.

For anyone who expected the same environment we enjoyed for years at the Alexis Park in a different layout, wake up. The last Con at the AP signaled so much more than a change of venue, it was the end of an era. Maybe DT will move the show to a venue where we can enjoy that kind of complete environmental control but I wouldn't blame him if he didn't.

ndex

[signals]

A cabbie told us last night that the Riv is going be taken down for new development in the near future. Does anyone know the validity of this rumor?

[theprez98]

A cabbie told us last night that the Riv is going be taken down for new development in the near future. Does anyone know the validity of this rumor?
Cabbies *do* know everything. :wink:

[Deviant Ollam]

A cabbie told us last night that the Riv is going be taken down for new development in the near future. Does anyone know the validity of this rumor?the older hotels in this town are always being sold or on the verge of being demolished, it seems. both the Riv and the Stardust (two classics of "vintage vegas" style) are up for sale but, as far as i know, have no serious takers at present. if sold, these sorts of venues would, of course, be torn down to make way for more gaudy, humongous, glitz/glam hotels like the bellagio. we'll just have to see. no chance, i think, of it being gone by summer '07.

[sammo]

On a related note... some of my friends were "wandering" around and (reportedly) seven security guards came up to them and demanded ID. They said that it was a Nevada state law that if a casino security guard asks for your ID, you have to give it to them. Since I wasn't with them, I don't know what exactly was said, but does anyone know if the casino/ID thing is true or not?

[Deviant Ollam]

On a related note... some of my friends were "wandering" around and (reportedly) seven security guards came up to them and demanded ID. They said that it was a Nevada state law that if a casino security guard asks for your ID, you have to give it to them. Since I wasn't with them, I don't know what exactly was said, but does anyone know if the casino/ID thing is true or not?people who know more about this than i do are free to disagree with me, but here's the basic run down of laws concerning any search and siezure (which includes the producing of ID)...

nobody has the power to forcibly make you produce your ID unless they are a local, state, or federal law enforcement officer (or a border guard, but i'm talking about people you encounter within the US, not outside it). you do not have to submit to the demands of contractors, rent-a-cops, security guards, etc. when being asked for ID. what you do have to do in america, however, is vacate any private property if asked to do so by the owners... and many owners (say, those in charge of a casino) may opt to kick a person out if they are thought of as suspicious and fail to cooperate with a request for ID.

now, if there is serious reason to suspect that you have committed a crime (or were immediately planning to) private security staff can temporarily hold you until law enforcement is contacted and arrives on the scene. (think of a person trying to shoplift at a supermarket... technically, security can't rummage through all their pockets and interrogate them heavily, they are supposed to just hold them and turn them over to the cops)

casinos are likely to be places where this line is crossed with great routine (they act almost as sovereign nation-states on their own soil with legions of security operatives and a lot of real estate that includes small, tucked-away back rooms where they can work people over hard if they wish)

so, in truth, you may be free in this sort of a situation to not show your ID... you'd be simultaneously free to leave the premesis and never return to it, however.

[kallahar]

On there being too many goons - do you *really* want casino security to make all the rules? The goons goal is to make sure people have a good time and don't get arrested. "real" security wants you to shut the fuck up and be a nice friendly temporary tennant who will give the hotel money. Remember what assholes the AP security guards were? Imagine if there were a lot of *them* in charge.

[rudeboy]

On there being too many goons - do you *really* want casino security to make all the rules? The goons goal is to make sure people have a good time and don't get arrested. "real" security wants you to shut the fuck up and be a nice friendly temporary tennant who will give the hotel money. Remember what assholes the AP security guards were? Imagine if there were a lot of *them* in charge.

Excellent point! I'd much rather be talking to a goon. I was just surprised that I hadn't seen any of them Friday morning when con was trying to start because of stupid late inspections.

[sammo]

so, in truth, you may be free in this sort of a situation to not show your ID... you'd be simultaneously free to leave the premesis and never return to it, however.

This is kind of what I thought. After they explained the situation, they said "Man, they sent like seven guards to hunt us down. You would think it would be easier to put one of them in front of the door where the sign says RESTRICTED ACCESS".

*slap*

[Xodia]

so, in truth, you may be free in this sort of a situation to not show your ID... you'd be simultaneously free to leave the premesis and never return to it, however.
An interesting note, some of the "rentacops" were actually Metro officers. I learned this as I was being asked to leave the premesis and never return to it. :shock:

[noid]

Thats not uncommon. Frankly, being a cop doesnt pay that much. Its not unusual to see cops moonlighting as security guards, bouncers, etc.

[signals]

the older hotels in this town are always being sold or on the verge of being demolished, it seems. both the Riv and the Stardust (two classics of "vintage vegas" style) are up for sale but, as far as i know, have no serious takers at present. if sold, these sorts of venues would, of course, be torn down to make way for more gaudy, humongous, glitz/glam hotels like the bellagio. we'll just have to see. no chance, i think, of it being gone by summer '07.

Update: According to a very reliable source (cabbie #2), there is a very important vote coming up to determine the sale of the Riv. Some guy, under the name Riv development corp, who owns the majority of stock(22%?) is trying to sell the property for $5 less than market value. The Riv employees who own a good percentage of the rest of the stock are fighting it. Evidently the majority stakeholder is in collusion with the development company that wants to buy the property. This is all word of mouth (after a heavy night of drinking). I'll try to update as I find out more.

[jur1st]

Evidently the majority stakeholder is in collusion with the development company that wants to buy the property.

That's too bad if it's true...however that kind of nonsense by a controlling shareholder wouldn't fly in a lot of places.

As far as the security situation goes, I didn't think it was too bad. Earlier this summer I attended a music festival which had been targeted by the local state police. They had checkpoints to search cars on the way in, searched tents and vehicles without warrants, and were using night vision goggles to find people enjoying alternatives to alcohol.

Sure, it may have put a damper on some of the pranks that people were hoping to perform but it could have been a whole lot worse.

[erehwon]

the older hotels in this town are always being sold or on the verge of being demolished, it seems. both the Riv and the Stardust (two classics of "vintage vegas" style) are up for sale but, as far as i know, have no serious takers at present. if sold, these sorts of venues would, of course, be torn down to make way for more gaudy, humongous, glitz/glam hotels like the bellagio. we'll just have to see. no chance, i think, of it being gone by summer '07.

I'm taking a wildly speculative guess that DT might sign a two year deal with with the Riv and ask for a two year option. The street (http://www.jetcafe.org/~npc/gambling/casino_death_watch.html) says that the Riv is the hospital, "A slow process whereby the Riviera is changing hands seems to be under way, but if we can believe what they seem to be saying, it will still be some time before the Riv is redeveloped."

But some of the Riv's neighbors (Stardust and the New Frontier) are on death door, and could see the handiwork of the Loizeaux family by as soon as December 2006.

[signals]

The latest news on the Riv sale is here:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2006/aug/09/080910716.html

Looks like everything is up in the air until the 29th.