Is/Is-Not SceneWhore split/copy from "Woots/Thanks-Yous"

[nous]

first, i'd like to thank all the folks who came to the ninja networks party on saturday night for being so hype and so chill at the same time, for not giving me a hard time when i asked you all to smoke on the balcony, and for not breaking my hookahs.

and a small "you suck" to the dude who knocked over the big one right after i said something to you about not yanking on the hose... we got the hookahs going at 2pm saturday afternoon and kept them going 'til 2 or 3am... i was really surprised that that was the only problem.

thanks to hacker pimps for their friday night party... it's just not defcon without strippers and/or random scene whores getting naked.

thanks to the speakers! i really enjoyed the content this year and filled in a few meaningful gaps in my knowledge base. special thanks to thenurse for the lecture on sneezing into our elbows. i hate hate hate when people don't cover their mouths when they sneeze or cough.

a big w00t for x30n, whose first defcon presentation made me proud.

most of all, much love and gratitude to the goons and staff who made this the best. defcon. ever. for me (i've been coming since 7)... you guys work your asses off and if feeding and/or watering you and maybe giving you a place to relax for a few minutes helped at all, i'm glad we could do it.

nous.

[Deviant Ollam]

it's just not defcon without strippers and/or random scene whores getting naked.while that's an accurate statement, clarification should be in order on one important point... the con girls who joined the professionals on the strip table weren't random scene whores. they were girlfriends of some well-known cats in our community. heather, for example, was there with warlord... and they are two of the nicest people around. while scene whores are a terrific addition to any con (after all, speakers and staff need free head after a long, hard day of working) i think that the hackerpimps' party this year had an atmosphere that is even cooler... guys and girls who are secure and happy enough with each other to drop the phony precepts of jealosy and all the other bullshit baggage that some people choose to carry around. the girls wanted to dance for everyeone and their guys just wanted them to have fun... that's love and that's friendship exhibited in an exremely cool way. didn't want to see it tagged with what some would consider a minor epithet.

[nous]

while that's an accurate statement, clarification should be in order on one important point... the con girls who joined the professionals on the strip table weren't random scene whores. they were girlfriends of some well-known cats in our community. heather, for example, was there with warlord... and they are two of the nicest people around. while scene whores are a terrific addition to any con (after all, speakers and staff need free head after a long, hard day of working) i think that the hackerpimps' party this year had an atmosphere that is even cooler... guys and girls who are secure and happy enough with each other to drop the phony precepts of jealosy and all the other bullshit baggage that some people choose to carry around. the girls wanted to dance for everyeone and their guys just wanted them to have fun... that's love and that's friendship exhibited in an exremely cool way. didn't want to see it tagged with what some would consider a minor epithet.

random chick that i don't know gets naked at public party. i assume scene whore 'til proven otherwise. i'm sure i'm not the only one whose brain works that way.

i have been in and have known _lots_ of people in nontraditional relationships. my statement wasn't meant to disparage whatever they have going on.

nous.

[Abby_Normal]

random chick that i don't know gets naked at public party. i assume scene whore 'til proven otherwise. i'm sure i'm not the only one whose brain works that way.


And it's attitudes like that that make many women keep their clothes on! This is a bad thing!

We like random women to get naked at our parties. Please don't ruin it for everyone else by branding them with insulting titles.

[nous]

And it's attitudes like that that make many women keep their clothes on! This is a bad thing!

We like random women to get naked at our parties. Please don't ruin it for everyone else by branding them with insulting titles.

there is a time and a place for everything. i don't think a party at defcon is the place to get naked. (certain parties are very much invite-only and so the random women there can have a certain expectation of trust and respect. this is not the case in many, if not most, parties.)

chicks who get naked undermine the long-standing effort to make guys understand that many (most?) girls at con aren't scene whor^H^H^H^Hhangers-on or girlfriends.

unless we all start wearing disclaimers on our shirts (or skin) that proclaim our levels of knowledge/interest and what our motivations are for our actions, people will assume things about us. that's life. get naked at a party, risk being thought of negatively. if you can't deal with that, stay clothed.

nous.

[Abby_Normal]

chicks who get naked undermine the long-standing effort to make guys understand that many (most?) girls at con aren't scene whor^H^H^H^Hhangers-on or girlfriends.


While I understand and agree with that statement I think as women, we owe it to the other women to be a little less judgemental. Otherwise we become part of the problem rather than the solution.

[valkyrie]

While I understand and agree with that statement I think as women, we owe it to the other women to be a little less judgemental. Otherwise we become part of the problem rather than the solution.

Okie, before things potentially get tense. There seems to be two of schools of thought here and they both should be validated:

Abby, first thank you for recognizing the H'pimps and their somewhat "free" parties. The boys and girls have definite ideas about what is and is not acceptable. If one does not approve of the activity or one is fearful that their presense could hork up another part of their life, then one should not attend. There is plenty of interesting naughtiness that goes on during DC that fun may be had by all without affront to certain sensibilities. I will stand up with Abby_Normal by testifying that these ladies, AND they truly are ladies, are NOT scene whores. I think it a bit squewed to automagically assume that they are because of a lack of clothing. I do, however, understand this reasoning in that through the course of my professional career, it is automatically assumed that because I am a female in tech, I am stupid. It's the same weird logic.

Female+no clothing+dancing freely=scene whore.
Female+tech+clothing=irrelevant.

Doesn't make that logic consistent. I have proven those assumptions incorrect time and time again. WITH MY CLOTHING ON! I admit guilt of the same squewed logic and it's taken me a while to allow a naked chick just BE a naked chick without making further judgements about her. Or a naked guy be a naked guy.

Nous, being the elitist cunt you advertise yourself to be: when IS an appropriate time for a tech woman to take her clothes off? Never? In the dark? Only in months that sport an "R?" I truly do understand where you are coming from; yours is the same viewpoint I held for the first years I was a DefCon attendee. And I really must ask: is calling oneself a "cunt" all that respectful?

All of us, men and women, gain respect for demonstration of our knowledge, insight and kindness, NOT because we do or do not remove our clothing in semi-public settings. And while it's true that women have a bit of a rougher road to go? If someone judges me merely on that? They are not a person I care to know. Move along. There is nothing to see here.

Regards,

valkyrie

sapere aude

[Abby_Normal]

Someone once said the definition of a scenewhore was "A woman who won't fuck YOU"

You'll notice there are lots of men whoring around at con, and nobody talks shit about them. But flash a tit, and you are a scenewhore.

I've noticed the biggest offenders in perpetuating this double standard are other woman, and that's sad.

The biggest scene whore I ever met never took her clothes off in public. She just pretended to be a hacker and played it coy while star fucking her way up the social ladder of defcon. Turned out she barely knew html. I'd say that's worse.

I used to not like the fact that there were so many non tech women at con, but I've gotten over that. Many of them are very nice people. And they help to make con more fun.

We have got to stop being so judgmental of women in the scene. Or start holding the men to the same standards. I don't judge people by what the wear (or don't wear), I judge them by who they are and how they treat others.

[valkyrie]

Someone once said the definition of a scenewhore was "A woman who won't fuck YOU"

You'll notice there are lots of men whoring around at con, and nobody talks shit about them. But flash a tit, and you are a scenewhore.

I've noticed the biggest offenders in perpetuating this double standard are other woman, and that's sad.

The biggest scene whore I ever met never took her clothes off in public. She just pretended to be a hacker and played it coy while star fucking her way up the social ladder of defcon. Turned out she barely knew html. I'd say that's worse.

I used to not like the fact that there were so many non tech women at con, but I've gotten over that. Many of them are very nice people. And they help to make con more fun.

We have got to stop being so judgmental of women in the scene. Or start holding the men to the same standards. I don't judge people by what the wear (or don't wear), I judge them by who they are and how they treat others.

Abby, I DO hold the men to the same standards. *snicker* wanna see some boys run for the hills?

valkyrie

sapere aude

[nous]

Okie, before things potentially get tense. There seems to be two of schools of thought here and they both should be validated:

actually, i thought the conversation was pretty much winding down before your post...

Nous, being the elitist cunt you advertise yourself to be: when IS an appropriate time for a tech woman to take her clothes off? Never? In the dark? Only in months that sport an "R?" I truly do understand where you are coming from; yours is the same viewpoint I held for the first years I was a DefCon attendee. And I really must ask: is calling oneself a "cunt" all that respectful?

each woman, whatever her sphere of interest, must choose for herself when and how much skin to bare. that said, you must be very naive to think that you can get naked in public (especially to jump up on a table and do things of a sexual nature) and not be thought of a certain way. if the woman to do so had had, for instance, a speaker's badge, i would have had a different opinion. as it was, a saw some random chick up there and went from that. i have been to every defcon since 7 and have never seen anyone i knew to be clued do anything more than flash her tits.

as for the "elitist cunt" thing... i have a great deal of self respect. i don't seek respect from people i don't know (or from "the scene" or "society" or whatever). i think that "elitist cunt" defines my personality well enough for my purposes here.

i don't know you... if i did, i probably wouldn't like you. i don't like most people. i don't care whether you like me. (this is a non-specific you.) if i took off all my clothing and jumped up on a table, i'd expect you to think of me as a scene whore.


nous.

[nous]

We have got to stop being so judgmental of women in the scene. Or start holding the men to the same standards. I don't judge people by what the wear (or don't wear), I judge them by who they are and how they treat others.

i'm judgmental with everyone. if i see a guy drinking a lot and acting immaturely and don't overhear any technical conversation or references, i assume he's a scene whore, too. they just don't get their pictures taken as often as naked chicks.

i assume everyone is an asshat until they prove otherwise.

[Abby_Normal]

i'm judgmental with everyone. if i see a guy drinking a lot and acting immaturely and don't overhear any technical conversation or references, i assume he's a scene whore, too. they just don't get their pictures taken as often as naked chicks.

i assume everyone is an asshat until they prove otherwise.

Well, that's perfectly fair then. It's double standards I have a problem with.

[DJ Jackalope]

. Or a naked guy be a naked guy.


Yeah, where's my naked guy quota for DC this year? Usually you at least see one running around somewhere in an aluminum swimsuit or something.....:tongue:

Oh actually, i just wanted to add that I was totally psyched when I found out at the party that some of the chicks were congoers and not strippers. Maybe its the goofy DC family thing or something coming out.

[converge]

I, on the other hand, *am* a scenewhore.. yet no one would let me get nekkid on the table. WTF? All you women thinks its about you.. pssh.. we've got parts that like rubbing too. I cry fowl.

[Abby_Normal]

each woman, whatever her sphere of interest, must choose for herself when and how much skin to bare. that said, you must be very naive to think that you can get naked in public (especially to jump up on a table and do things of a sexual nature) and not be thought of a certain way.

Depends on what you think of as a sexual nature. There is a world of difference between dancing or flashing or being the pool 2 girl.

if the woman to do so had had, for instance, a speaker's badge, i would have had a different opinion. as it was, a saw some random chick up there and went from that.
Perhaps she didn't want to wear her badge. Until you talk to someone you don't know. Unless we all start tattooing our resumes on our bodies how are you going to know what a person is about? Just by looking at them or overhearing a random snippet of convesation?

If you were to easedrop on me at con you might hear me talking about tech or knitting or programmable sex toys or a million other things.

i have been to every defcon since 7 and have never seen anyone i knew to be clued do anything more than flash her tits.

For the most part I think you may be right about that. It seems like most of the women who have more to offer than tits do seem to be more likely to save their nude antics for private settings. But maybe that's just because being clued they know how harshly they'd be judged for doing otherwise.

[Abby_Normal]

I, on the other hand, *am* a scenewhore.. yet no one would let me get nekkid on the table. WTF? All you women thinks its about you.. pssh.. we've got parts that like rubbing too. I cry fowl.
Damn, no one told me that! And I had a lot of singles at con this year I could have been stuffing in your undies! :-)

[TheCotMan]

I, on the other hand, *am* a scenewhore.. yet no one would let me get nekkid on the table. WTF? All you women thinks its about you.. pssh.. we've got parts that like rubbing too. I cry fowl.

If you got naked on a table, you'd soon be doing the "floppy tuna" as 110 volts of electronic potential with a few amps started coursing through your body when your head hit a power light fixture in the ceiling.

I could make money getting naked, as I could charge people money before I'd put my clothes back on. ]:>

Notes on Scenewhore and sex (Male/Female):
It seems men are more often classified as sexual predators than women.
Naked men seem to be more quickly arrested than naked women.
Naked women seem to be better accepted.
Perhaps the avergage person in society finds naked women less threatening than naked men?

The scenewhores don't really bug me until they try to talk to me-- it is like I feel myself losing what few brain cells I have left when I try to understand what they are trying to talk about...

Maybe that is the problem. Maybe I shouldn't be listening to them as much as I should just watch them. (heh-heh)

In my view, scenewhores can be men or women. Anyone who trades dignity, or personal respect, for short-term popularity, but ends up polarizing people against them, is likely a scenewhore-- man or woman.

[valkyrie]

If you got naked on a table, you'd soon be doing the "floppy tuna" as 110 volts of electronic potential with a few amps started coursing through your body when your head hit a power light fixture in the ceiling.

I could make money getting naked, as I could charge people money before I'd put my clothes back on. ]:>

Notes on Scenewhore and sex (Male/Female):
It seems men are more often classified as sexual predators than women.
Naked men seem to be more quickly arrested than naked women.
Naked women seem to be better accepted.
Perhaps the avergage person in society finds naked women less threatening than naked men?

The scenewhores don't really bug me until they try to talk to me-- it is like I feel myself losing what few brain cells I have left when I try to understand what they are trying to talk about...

Maybe that is the problem. Maybe I shouldn't be listening to them as much as I should just watch them. (heh-heh)

In my view, scenewhores can be men or women. Anyone who trades dignity, or personal respect, for short-term popularity, but ends up polarizing people against them, is likely a scenewhore-- man or woman.

That is what I think I was attempting to say. Just because a person behaves in a particular way, doesn't mean they are what you assume they are. I just find it brazen to make assumptions in that way. Unless a person is demonstrating fucktardedness. That's a whole other planet.

Thank you Sir, again, for your levelheadedness. It's much appreciated.

[che]

I, on the other hand, *am* a scenewhore.. yet no one would let me get nekkid on the table. WTF? All you women thinks its about you.. pssh.. we've got parts that like rubbing too. I cry fowl.

I agree... nobody offered to pay me to take my clothes off.. I say the women should be happy there.. at least they get the better end of the cash flow!

[valkyrie]

I agree... nobody offered to pay me to take my clothes off.. I say the women should be happy there.. at least they get the better end of the cash flow!

Five bucks to show me your scanties. You's a hottie anyway and you know it. *me giggles*

[Abby_Normal]

I agree... nobody offered to pay me to take my clothes off.. I say the women should be happy there.. at least they get the better end of the cash flow!
You'd make me pay? :-(

[valkyrie]

You'd make me pay? :-(


come one honey! It all goes to EFF.

valkyire

sapere aude

[vect0rx]

I actually wrote a paper about this in a junior college english class of mine. The teacher made us do an essay for the final and it could be on any one of five topics but they all were like topics the presupposed one's opinion on something.

For example, the questions were like:
1. How should men help women?
2. How should television be used to benefit society?
3. How should women help women.

So I sat there for 10 minutes kind of miffed over the topics she gave us to write, and thought to myself -- hey, wait. Women should stop calling other women sluts. And I went on for eight pages, theorizing that one's own gender ultimately controls widespread opinions and acceptance of such behavior.

For example a guy can do all sorts of whoring around and women might label is negatively and call guys disgusting for it but among other men it's a positive thing and hence accepted all around.

At any rate I thought the paper would piss her off because I tried my hardest to get around the topics that she was trying to get out of us but she actually thought it was a good paper.

Maybe I was onto something.

And it's attitudes like that that make many women keep their clothes on! This is a bad thing!

We like random women to get naked at our parties. Please don't ruin it for everyone else by branding them with insulting titles.

[shannon]

Hello All,

I am a self professed Newbie. Those that met me at this CON know that I am NOT a Hacker nor am I normally anywhere near the 'scene' that goes on other than CON. I am a Stay at Home Mom with THREE Little Boys. I came this year with my Husband.

I met and was OVERLY Impressed with everyone that I came in contact with. Men and women alike. What most impressed me was the open-ness and non-judgemental attitude I was presented with. Anyone who saw me knew I was definately NOT a Hacker or within the 'scene'. Yet, I was welcommed with open arms to both Nous's Party (Nous, i've Never done a Houka before.. score one big one for my lipstick case) as well as Abbys (I'll never forget "HI Im ABBY Welcome to my Party!!".

I believe both of you women have the utmost respect for Women as a whole. The definition of 'scene whore' is a bit skewed however. I could be called a 'scene whore' because I came purely for the social aspect of CON and know ZIP about Computers, yet I never got naked. I was there purely for the 'scene'. ~~ I think, next year, I will make T-Shirts saying "My Husbands' Scene Whore". ~~ Yet, I do not believe the girls(or guys) that get naked are there purely because they are 'lower' than me.

That being said, Con is.. what it is.. if it weren't, there would be no "Vynl Vannahs" or "Beer Betty's" or strippers, or porn or anything. Con's
scene is about being what you want and what makes you happy and letting OTHERS do what makes them happy. The statistics are definately that the Men are the Majority, and face it.. what makes men happy?.. (do I really need to state that?) Further, you get to learn some really cool stuff at the Forums!! Woo Magnetic Strips!

Be Open, Be Honest, and most of all, if you dont like it, change the channel.
Come to Con knowing what to expect, do your homework and dont judge/criticise others for simply doing what they want or believe in.

In Love,
Shannon
(the Newbie)

[astcell]

Some of us still do not equate clothing quantity with brain cell activity. There is no correlation in my book. You can be a smart scene whore, a ditzy programmer, and anything else. But just because you are one thing I try not to assume the rest.

Besides, I'd realy like folks to cut me some slack for my indiscretions, so why not just offer the olive branch first?

I guess this means next year we will have "I Spotted the Scene Whore" and "I am the Scene Whore" shirts? I so want one....

[Abby_Normal]

Shannon, you may be a n00b, but you jumped in with both feet and HELPED. I don't know where you found all those cups, but the party would have been over much sooner without you! You are always welcome at any of my parties!

[TheCotMan]

I am a self professed Newbie. Those that met me at this CON know that I am NOT a Hacker nor am I normally anywhere near the 'scene' that goes on other than CON. I am a Stay at Home Mom with THREE Little Boys. I came this year with my Husband.

I met and was OVERLY Impressed with everyone that I came in contact with. Men and women alike. What most impressed me was the open-ness and non-judgemental attitude I was presented with.

astcell has a quote I've often cited, that really describes one big thing that can help people new to Defcon do well at Defcon:
"Be yourself" but he says it in a much better way:

Here:
...One thing that does not go over well are people who know the meaning of AOL, BNC, NIC, PC and OS and immediate paint themselves as sysadmins at NASA.

Good word to anyone going: Be yourself. If you are a slurpee technician and play with computers on the side, then that's what you are. Be proud of it!