being under 21 + the white ball

[EvilMoFo]

so, i am 20 ... the people that were going with me to the white ball ranged from 16 to 35 years old

being defcon, i really never expected to be carded ...
i attempted to go to into the white ball and was promptly carded ... we had to call the others that were still getting ready and tell them there was no chance of getting in
i was really fricking happy i was unable to get what i wanted to wear for the white ball... if i had, it would have been a lot of wasted money/effort

i know all about the chaos that was the reason for carding .... i just want to be sure that it will not happen again (for my friends sake, as i will be 21)

in all reality, the bartender in the ball should have been carding and not goons at the door ... maybe the bar shouldnt be in the ball if that is how they must operate

[DJ Jackalope]

>in all reality, the bartender in the ball should have been carding and not goons at the door

Yes. Absolutely. Which sucks. However, DC is at the mercy of the police. *sigh*

I didn't get carded all weekend by Riviera staff. I work in the bar industry where we do 100% everything we possibly can to keep our liqour licenses. Theoreically they should have had one of thier staff carding people, not goons. But its a moot point now, even if its an annoying one.

[EvilMoFo]

its a casino ... while their liquor license is important, they are protecting their gaming license

:)


i must say, i would not have had such an easy time in the riviera if not for living in reno and going into casinos on a semi regular basis

[TheCotMan]

>in all reality, the bartender in the ball should have been carding and not goons at the door

Yes. Absolutely. Which sucks. However, DC is at the mercy of the police. *sigh*

I didn't get carded all weekend by Riviera staff. I work in the bar industry where we do 100% everything we possibly can to keep our liqour licenses. Theoreically they should have had one of thier staff carding people, not goons. But its a moot point now, even if its an annoying one.

I'd rather have a goon carding me than some person posing as staff. Goon attire is fairly well, um, enforced? If someone tries to impersonate a (security) goon, there are risks involved.

However, someone impersonating a hotel employee, to look at IDs from "hackers" ? Yeah. There is an opportunity for identity theft.

The only outfits that I might trust more than the Goons, would probably be Casino Pit-Bosses (if they had such a uniform) or upper level casino security (if they had uniforms) since the risks for impersonating such people would be even greater than that of impersonating a goon-- (they know where the cameras aren't located.)

It would not take much to get a hotel uniform, and stand at a door and ask for IDs.

[shoegoo]

I was definitely disappointed by this too. Half the group I was there with was unable to get into the ball (one of the things we look forward to every year). Hopefully this is one of the things we won't have to deal with next year or perhaps they can put wristbands on the 21+ people or something which will leave less people out.

[Fire_Walker]

One of the main reasons to not let anyone under 21 in the club is to prevent a 21 year old buying someone under 21 a drink. Wrist bands don't work that well due to the fact of sliding them off your wrist and it also doesn't prevent the under 21 year old from getting alcohol. The only way to completely elimenate under age drinking is to not allow the minors around it. Yes, I am a bouncer. Yes, I understand the a good number of minor drink (yes, I was one). This is our reasons at our events.

[Abby_Normal]

Why not just not serve booze at the B&W? There are plenty of bars and parties where you can get booze, just don't have a bar in the room that the ball is in.

I really think not allowing the under 21 crowd in to any of the night time events is asking for trouble. I suspect there would have been less trouble on saturday night if the under 21 crowd had somewhere to go other than their rooms.

We were carding on friday night at the penthouse before we were asked to, but we were still letting underage people in, just not serving them booze. We were not happy when we had to go 21+. But we have to protect ourselves.

When Riv security broke up our party they were demanding IDs and stuff, even though everyone had already been checked and marked. They also searched our room for drugs, one time attempting to sneak upstairs in to the bedroom to "catch them in the act". Turns out this fucktard didn't know the difference between the smell of cloves and weed.

I'm really sorry we had to be so uber strict. I'm sorry if you were one of the people we had to kick out for having weed. But we have to protect ourselves and Defcon.

[Chris]

I don't want to speak out of turn as the Ball is Bink's domain and there is only so much that we, as staff, can do on these issues. That said, the under 21 being excluded issue was something that bothered the staff and we are working to resolve it for next year. Not just for the Ball(s) but for all of the events and parties.

You guys may not believe this, but planning for DC15 started about 30 minutes after the closing ceremonies and this issue was one that we worked on immediately after the end of Con. All should be taken care of for next year.

[theprez98]

You guys may not believe this, but planning for DC15 started about 30 minutes after the closing ceremonies and this issue was one that we worked on immediately after the end of Con. All should be taken care of for next year.
Take a couple of days off!!! :wink:

[DJ Jackalope]

man, i'm just glad that Priest didnt shut the ball down when I was playin'. It's a little unnerving to be spinnin and watching Priest walk up and stand on the stage.

[TheCotMan]

I don't want to speak out of turn as the Ball is Bink's domain and there is only so much that we, as staff, can do on these issues. That said, the under 21 being excluded issue was something that bothered the staff and we are working to resolve it for next year. Not just for the Ball(s) but for all of the events and parties.

You guys may not believe this, but planning for DC15 started about 30 minutes after the closing ceremonies and this issue was one that we worked on immediately after the end of Con. All should be taken care of for next year.

Here is an idea:
I don't trust random hotel employees wearing uniforms walking the hallways, so much as I would trust a defcon security goon of some sort that I recognize, since impersonating a security goon has other penalties.

How about running an ID check and stamp at the Information Booth, for people who want to be stamped as being over 21? The stamp could be changed every night, and could limit the exposure of people's Drivers Licenses to random people manning doors at private parties?

A different stamp each night limits risk of forgaries, and provides a central location with "trusted" people to check IDs.

A "Front Desk" or "Registration Desk" employee that is working behind the hotel counter at a casino/hotel could also be trusted more than one walking the halls.

[Tacitus]

I think the issue you run into with a centralized official id check spot is that a good amount of the parties you needed to show id for were private parties, that is: not offical defocn run events. I wouldn't think the powers that be (DT et. al.) would want to take on that liability.

[Abby_Normal]

Here is an idea:

How about running an ID check and stamp at the Information Booth, for people who want to be stamped as being over 21? The stamp could be changed every night, and could limit the exposure of people's Drivers Licenses to random people manning doors at private parties?
.
Hotel security told us that it was ilegal to have anyone under 21 at our party if we were serving booze, but they might have been lying.

[ck3k]

I know this sucked for a ton of people (friends), I am hoping that we are able to solve this next year. In all reality, why not have a bar outside of the B and W, if we need one at all (we don't). I think next year all will be resolved. I think the B and W got screwed this year, hope that next year it is is doubleplus awesome.

[TheCotMan]

I think the issue you run into with a centralized official id check spot is that a good amount of the parties you needed to show id for were private parties, that is: not offical defocn run events. I wouldn't think the powers that be (DT et. al.) would want to take on that liability.

Maybe the hotel might be willing to save the man-hours needed to staff qualified people in front of private parties, if they could stamp people at tehe bell desk or reg desk. (Qualified to check IDs.) It also could speed the process of determining who is 21 and who isn't if they had to visit a party. Anyone without a stamp could have their ID checked, for example.

Hotel security told us that it was ilegal to have anyone under 21 at our party if we were serving booze, but they might have been lying.
Well, we can always look it up. I think Nevada has thei laws online, and so does the city of Las Vegas. Such information may not really help in situations like Saturday, as LEO and spam (fake ham, aka security guards ;-) seem to not like being told what laws really apply, and what the law really is. Laws being what they are, if they get pissed, they can probably find a reason to close a private party.

Since they own the hotel, they could just as easily kick a guest out of the hotel for any reason they want, with that whole "right to refuse service to anyone," thing.

[Vyrus]

... as awsome as these idea's sound, the problem with this is issue is
a) if there was a SURE fire way of keeping underaged kids out of 21 and over area's other clubs and such would be using it by know i asure you

b) its defcon. as soon as there is a security messure of any kind in place, SOMBODY will hack it :P

heh i dont think its a question of actuly stoping kids from drinking, i think its just a matter of makeing the hotell "think" that were trying our best :P

[ck3k]

Its all about perception. If they think everything is ok, then everything is ok.

The solution to this is to just keep drinks out of black and white those under age can have somewhere to chill. If the private parties have to card, at least people have a place to kick it and are not kicked to the curb.


... as awsome as these idea's sound, the problem with this is issue is
a) if there was a SURE fire way of keeping underaged kids out of 21 and over area's other clubs and such would be using it by know i asure you

b) its defcon. as soon as there is a security messure of any kind in place, SOMBODY will hack it :P

heh i dont think its a question of actuly stoping kids from drinking, i think its just a matter of makeing the hotell "think" that were trying our best :P

[DJ Jackalope]

There's a ton of loose ends I am very curious about as well and don't have any answers to. I will see if I can find out some info for next year's ball, assuming of course, one is still in place.

[[Syntax]]

Having to produce an ID repeatedly to several people at Defcon didnt ultimately please me..

The whole shutting down of everything sucked even more.
Especially after everyone complied with everything demanded of them.

There hadnt been a bar or anything at previous Black & White Balls had there?
If there was I didnt notice it..

[Deviant Ollam]

']There hadnt been a bar or anything at previous Black & White Balls had there?heh, yes there was a bar... it was part of the "all of defcon bar" since back at the AP it seemed like everything and everywhere alcohol was either served or freely available. i can recall either purchasing drinks or obtaining them by some other means at the B&W for DC10... i can recall sitting at the table with them. was that actually a "black and white ball" back then, however, or was it just the "dj action room"?

in any case, comparison of previous years with the riv breaks down somewhat due to the whole new world of policy that a gambling casino places us in... i wish for the freedoms and loose atmosphere of the alexis park sometimes. the riv is a nice upgrade in a lot of ways, however. i find myself leaning one way and then the other with respect to the hotel switch issue.

[DJ Jackalope]

There was a bar in the outside area that was just outside of the B/W Ball room, like right after the Goons carded you for your badge. I remember this, cuz one day I was a little on the smashed side and asked one of the bartenders for a bottle opener to open my beer I'd brought in. They almost had someone throw me out. Not one of my better moments in my life, but it sure was funny.

>"dj action room"?

Hey all righty!