Penthouse Party: Room 6407

[icetre]

I regret to inform all of you, that I will unable to throw a party this year.

It's rather sad, and I'm still very upset about it. The Riviera is unwilling to work with me; and DC staff is unwilling to help defend me against the hotels very unreasonable and unexplained ban of my presence.

Please see http://www.suiteoftheelite.com/letter.html

Many people tried to come to our aid and assist in a situation that is very very wrong. Being that our party was honestly the most official defcon party ever. The hotel was more than aware of what we were doing and told to prepare the facilities for a party of 50-100 people on a rotating basis. They were informed of these plans in *March 2006* by way of Toni Goldsmith, a Riviera housing coordinator.

The Riviera was warned that I would be serving my own food and booze, The entire reason I negotiated with Toni to hold my party in a private room and not in an offical hotel space, was to not conflict with the Defcon conference hotel contracts. (Which you may not know requires that all food and booze served in common hotel areas to be served by staff and sourced from the hotel)

Our crew went above and beyond the call of duty to make sure the hotel was informed and involved in every step of our planning. The result being to have the hotel make us the scapegoat when the fit hit the shan.

We were ever vigilant to make sure that Defcon's interests were protected and that our party was not a liability. We worked with the Goons extensively and complied with all requests and solved all problems brought to our attention.

Instead of the hotel noticing that I paid an additional $1,000 fine without even flinching. Instead of trying to up sell me into a ballroom, or trying to talk me into purchasing hotel catering, booze or services... I was banned.

We were to be made an example of.


At this point, the hotel is so stubborn they will not even rent me a standard hotel room. (which is rather stupid considering the chaos that is defcon, seems it would be smarter to have an address on me, than force me underground. Easier to watch me if you know where I am...)

This year, I had plans to double the $12,000 budget of last years party to $24,000 but without space at the hotel I just do not in any way think it's going to be worth it.

I had negotiated with 2 VERY big name artists to play sets at the party (one big, and one not so big, but bigger than Mc Front-A-Lot)

We have already purchased $3,000 in new sound equipment in anticipation, all of which will lie collecting dust.

I looked into throwing an offsite party, even inquired about operating a bus to shuttle clients to and from the party. This is totally possible. I just don't want to invest this kind of time, when some of my best friends; (namely CJ, Flea, and the other Red Shirt goons) just wouldn't be able to go.

One of the tenets of this party was open access to all; We played no favorites and there was no secret handshake, sticker, or guest list access required. This would not comply with this requirement.

So while I apologize, please remember: If your willing to invest the time, and money anything is possible. Much of the required work at this party was done by volunteers. You can throw a similar party if you take the time and effort required to plan it. DC14:6407 started planning on October 15th 2005. Some several hundred hours were spent jockeying with the hotel, collecting music videos, etc. It took the work of 2 people just to plan it and I'd say a staff of about 15 to pull it off.

You can do it! Remember one thing. No matter how righteous you think you are. No matter how honest, forthright, truthful, or for that matter **right** you think you are. No matter how unreasonably out of line the hotel is: Defcon staff *DOES NOT* have your back. They've proved it in this case.

I'm not allowed on hotel property for doing exactly what I told them I was going to. I'm banned because the hotel assumed I meant a small room gathering of 15 friends and a bottle of wine. I'm being punished because their assumption was incorrect, even though my estimates while still wrong were closer to the real totals. I'm being punished so Toni Goldsmith can look like she handled a problem rather than admit that she had knowledge and allowed a party like this to transpire. She saved her job at my expense.

DT and Cherl could have done something, but they didn't. They've both seen the emails, and various other proof that I have that I've been wronged. I've been told they will do nothing to help me.

So while I can throw down and god knows I'd love to; I'm not allowed to. I'm sorry to you all.

Thanks are due to all that helped make the penthouse what it was last year; Niki, Amber, Dallas, Wes; all I've forgotten. All of the goons. Everyone at DC14. We brought the bar to new heights, and to be honest, I expect *you* to take it even further!

Sincerely,

Adam P. Chesnutt
AKA IcE tRe

[kallahar]

Damn the man!

[Deviant Ollam]

it's so so very sad what happened. i loved what you put together and was appalled at the way the hotel acted. it's because of this sort of response that i so often have the tendency to avoid official policy and regulation... it's a lot like many other DefCon events, in that regard. anyone remember the first time the Minibosses showed up? there may have been discussion about going legit and getting permission... but in the end just finding a free room somewhere and slipping in unnoticed was the best plan.

i think that your matter simply shows how a town like vegas (or any other large city dominated by private enterprises) handles matters... permits and official plans just lead to lists of names who can be blamed later. doing things underground and without permission -- while it can result in small shutdowns -- doesn't have the same potential for blame after the fact.

while we will miss your party planning skills, i truly hope that you still come to defcon, ban or no ban, and that we all get to hang with you this summer.

[icetre]

Please understand, I'm not blaming anyone!

Many of the lower DC staff tried to get various angles. TW, and many others made some attempt to get some communications going.

I even offered to stay for the dc/hotel meeting to meet with staff to discuss the problems.

Lots of people have tried to stop this, but honestly I'm sick of fighting everyone to give them my money.

Do I think DC could have done more? Maybe, but honestly they're totally within their rights to offer no help whatsoever..

There's no blame here. I did what I did because I love defcon and I wanted to help. I actually didn't expect the party to be quite as successful as it was. I thought it was gonna get shut down in the first 30 minutes. We threw 2 successful parties where only one was planned.. That was awesome.

I think one of the real lessons here, is make sure you get contracts. That was our problem. We had some details in writing some phone calls, etc.

Please let me express my gratitude to all of the defcon staff, Cherl and DT included. It was because of them that I was able to do any of this.

I wish they would have fought a little more becuase I think it has started a rather dangerous precedent.

[staticblac]

In my opinon the Rivera staff is way to liberal with regard to banning people from the property. It sucks that there will be no party again this year because of the short sightedness of the rivera. Hopefully in the time to come a solution to this dilema will be found. Best of luck.

[Shinobi]

In my opinon the Rivera staff is way to liberal with regard to banning people from the property. It sucks that there will be no party again this year because of the short sightedness of the rivera. Hopefully in the time to come a solution to this dilema will be found. Best of luck.

How liberal? I seem to read a number of these horror stories on here.

[astcell]

I'm casting my vote by buying alcohol at locations other than on hotel property. Imagine if everyone did this....

[lowtec]

I wasn't planning on buying drinks at the Riv anyway...

[Shinobi]

Any local places where alcohol can be purchased (Cheaply)?

[Deviant Ollam]

Any local places where alcohol can be purchased (Cheaply)?yes, almost any large stores. find someone, anyone, with a car on your first day in town (or even pay for a taxi or something) and get way off the strip to a grocery market or other such place.

in fact, i had a similar question a couple years back. this thread (http://forum.defcon.org/showthread.php?t=6169) may help you. get to a place like Lee's (http://local.google.com/maps?f=l&=&q=lee%27s+discount+liquor&near=89031&btnG=Search+Businesses) and stock up on day one. keep styrofoam coolers in your room and raid the hallway ice machine from time to time. (however, if you have your A/C turned up in the room it's possible to lay a case of beer and ice in a cooler and have it stay cold for two or even three days if you don't open the lid at all or if you drape a damp towel on top of it.)

[kallahar]

There is also a liquor store within walking distance just south of the riv, on the strip.

[astcell]

***A*** liquor store? You say it like there is just one.

[Shinobi]

Keep styrofoam coolers in your room and raid the hallway ice machine from time to time. (however, if you have your A/C turned up in the room it's possible to lay a case of beer and ice in a cooler and have it stay cold for two or even three days if you don't open the lid at all or if you drape a damp towel on top of it.)

Sounds like a good idea, beats a bath tub full of ice.

[astcell]

Sounds like a good idea, beats a bath tub full of ice.

Harvesting kidneys again this year?

[Shinobi]

Harvesting kidneys again this year?

Ohh yes... :eek: I'll drop them off at the toxic BBQ! :smile:

[hackajar]

http://local.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=liquor,+las+vegas,+nv&ie=UTF8&cd=1&z=11&om=1

I can take pre-orders if you wish, being a local and all.

[Dallas]

Aristocrats..

We did have fun last year didnt we.

How about getting the dive bar next door, I forget what its called, has a bar and restraunt.

Or something at Circus Circus --

If you are seriously banned, you know we can get around it.

- Dallas.

[astcell]

True, there are LOTS of other places to get banned from before Vegas is no longer an option.

[MitchMitchem]

Just throw the party under someone else's name.

[MitchMitchem]

Oh, just read the letter. If you're found on property you will be ASKED to leave. That's it? Just say no. :)

[alklloyd]

Icetre, that completely sucks. Alas, Vegas casinos can ban you for any reason, and they don't have to tell you why.
At any rate, just wanted to say thanks for an amazing party...

Al

[Dallas]

How about this year, you rent it day to day with CASH (Under someone else name), then if you get tossed out, come hang out in my room or one of thousands of others in vegas.

Or we could just construct a giant tent out back and do what we want!


Icetre, that completely sucks. Alas, Vegas casinos can ban you for any reason, and they don't have to tell you why.
At any rate, just wanted to say thanks for an amazing party...

Al

[astcell]

Let's just all to up to 6407 and see if they will let us in.

[Abby_Normal]

Oh, just read the letter. If you're found on property you will be ASKED to leave. That's it? Just say no. :)

If only it were that simple. I think they'd still notice a party of that size. The Riv won't even let Tre book a normal room. There is also a lot of behind the scenes stuff that I don't feel like going into.

Planning a party of that size takes us almost all year, and with all the problems with the hotel we just couldn't do it.

We hope this won't be forever. We loved how things went last year, we never expected things to get so huge. Almost everyone was amazing. So many people helped out, and the room was treated well (despite rumors to the contrary).

I'm a little worried about what the future hold for us at the Riv. Hopefully they will relax a little this year. Just watch your backs, remember, we were totally up front and honest with the hotel, and what we planned to do. I fear this Riv won't like DCs gonzo ethic very much.

To be honest, this is the first DC I can remember where I wasn't involved in running a party, it may be nice to relax and let other people do all the work. And to get to attend all the other parties I never had time to go to in the past. Hell, i may even get to attend a talk or 2!

[icetre]

Most of our booze was bought at Sam's Club and Costco. There's many people from CA there with trucks and cars that would be more than willing to help a /b/rotha out and get the to a store.

If I were there, I usually have a car. However, it's usually littered in TPS reports.

Honestly, remember it's a drop in the bucket, I'm pretty sure while efforts like this are valiant, We're terrible customers for the Riv.

Let's face it: We don't really gamble in the numbers they'd like. I have a hetrosexual lifemate that works for MGM/Mirage and he tells me on a good night *COIN IN* can be as much as 6.5mil a night. (that's not counting the tables, or food, etc.) The average loss per head is $27.5. Hackers, being good at teh math don't usually tend to throw their money away like that.

I'm fairly confident one of the reasons our party was shut down, was because the Riv was feeling like we were cutting in on their action.

You weren't supposed to be in my room, drinking and dancing. You were supposed to be at the tables, losing money.

I'm pretty confident this is one of the most significant reasons for their actions in my case.

So my point (after this long winded pile of crap) is: Feel free to buy or not buy. Though your idea is righteous, the problem is your hurting them on a sideline at best. For gods sake, they'll give you booze if you play, even if your playing the penny slots. The buy the booze in bulk, and on average, it comes out to less than a dollar a shot. Considering the lowered inhibitions, as well as the effect that alcohol has on your decision making ability, the increase in house odds, really it's the best investment they could make.

The reason that booze is expensive in the shops is to make you go, "Hell no, I can get it for free out on the casino floor" It's not there to make money, it's there to push you into the casino.

If your going off site, go because you can get much better prices offsite, not because you think your going to punish the Riv. Cause they're not gonna care.

Just to let you know, I spent an average of $19 for a 1.75L bottle of say Jim Beam bourbon. Of course if you have better taste you'll pay more, but even Abby and I c an't finish a 1.75L in a weekend and we certainly couldn't finish 2.

Protip: Most people go to Sam's club for tbbq, if your nice you can get a ride to and fro, and attend tbbq. Cheap booze, Meat, amazing company, what more can a man ask for?




yes, almost any large stores. find someone, anyone, with a car on your first day in town (or even pay for a taxi or something) and get way off the strip to a grocery market or other such place.

in fact, i had a similar question a couple years back. this thread (http://forum.defcon.org/showthread.php?t=6169) may help you. get to a place like Lee's (http://local.google.com/maps?f=l&=&q=lee%27s+discount+liquor&near=89031&btnG=Search+Businesses) and stock up on day one. keep styrofoam coolers in your room and raid the hallway ice machine from time to time. (however, if you have your A/C turned up in the room it's possible to lay a case of beer and ice in a cooler and have it stay cold for two or even three days if you don't open the lid at all or if you drape a damp towel on top of it.)

[icetre]

Saying no, will have the effect of LV Metro being called and my subsequent arrest for the crime of trespass.

Believe me, it's not just that easy.

Adam


Oh, just read the letter. If you're found on property you will be ASKED to leave. That's it? Just say no. :)

[cereal76]

Yes, the people who were banned could most likley sneak past security and get into defcon. However, is it worth the risk? For me, no it's not. DefCon is fun, I have a blast every year and always learn new and interesting things, but after figuring the cost of not only a trip to vegas, but the cost of bail and lawyers if I am arrested, makes it not worth it.

[Dallas]

This sucks, I am actually on the fence... go not go...its a toss up. I really enjoy the free for all party type...maybe should just go to Burningman instead.


-Dallas

Yes, the people who were banned could most likley sneak past security and get into defcon. However, is it worth the risk? For me, no it's not. DefCon is fun, I have a blast every year and always learn new and interesting things, but after figuring the cost of not only a trip to vegas, but the cost of bail and lawyers if I am arrested, makes it not worth it.

[erehwon]

Is it too late to call either The Sahara or (shudder) Circus Circus and hold the Penthouse party there?

I would think the Riv's loss might be another casino's gain, especially with a number of cash toting security professionals wandering around their casino floor. :biggrin:

[Abby_Normal]

Is it too late to call either The Sahara or (shudder) Circus Circus and hold the Penthouse party there?

I would think the Riv's loss might be another casino's gain, especially with a number of cash toting security professionals wandering around their casino floor. :biggrin:

We are looking into it. A lot of people say they won't go off site, and there are a lot of people who won't be able to attend (like the goons) if we go to another hotel. I'd hate to have a party without the goons, who have been great to us.

Still, we are reviewing our options, and maybe next year we'll have a solution.

[blauman]

Hmmm... and I was thinking this was for TURISTS only :biggrin:


Ohh yes... :eek: I'll drop them off at the toxic BBQ! :smile:

[mfreeck]

Hmmm... and I was thinking this was for TURISTS only :biggrin:

...not to be confused with TURRETS, which is not to be confused with TOURETTES, or tourists with tourettes visiting turrets.

[czarina]

So, am I to understand that there will be no "Happy Birthday Czarina" party or side dishes??

[Abby_Normal]

So, am I to understand that there will be no "Happy Birthday Czarina" party or side dishes??

Isn't that the entire weekend? :-)

[Abby_Normal]

Hey, if you helped in anyway with the party last year and you haven't been in touch with me or Tre yet please drop us a line. We'd like to at least have everyone together for a drink at some point during the con.

[Exist]

Sorry about what happened Icetre & Abby and I agree the hotel's decision is strictly based on "loss of revenue" but if you wanna try at another hotel nearby then by all means go for it! Kudos on the great 2 parties last year, I don't know what most people would have done if you guys didn't have them since the B&W balls were closed early (I seriously hope that shit doesn't happen this year). One question, how would they know who you are? Did they take your picture? I understand that $1,000 bullshit you don't want to deal with again (i've had hotels give me fines of $50-$200 for leaving some trash in my room in the past) and it's really up to you guys with what you decide to do. I'm up to help if you guys need any, just let me know via PM.

[che]

I'm sure this has been mentioned already, but what about the skyboxes? Are they still open and/or a possibility?

[kallahar]

last year the skyboxes required hotel-provided bartenders or something like that. There were *lots* of regulations to follow, I heard.

[Voltage Spike]

last year the skyboxes required hotel-provided bartenders or something like that. There were *lots* of regulations to follow, I heard.

I'm not entirely certain that's true. I attended at least two skybox parties where people had their own bartenders working. It was kind of sad when people were approaching the hotel bartenders simply for ice (since there never seems to be enough ice), but at least most of us were good enough to tip anyway.

Of course, Defcon bartenders may have simply been tolerated rather than allowed...

[Abby_Normal]

last year the skyboxes required hotel-provided bartenders or something like that. There were *lots* of regulations to follow, I heard.

Yeah, that's why when we told Toni Goldsmith (who booked our room last year) what we wanted to do she steered us towards the room we ended up in. We told the Riv we had our own staff and supplies, and she said the penthouse was a much better choice than a sky box.

I suggest if you do anything with the Riv GET IT IN WRITING! Don't let yourself get screwed like we did.

[nous]

Yeah, that's why when we told Toni Goldsmith (who booked our room last year) what we wanted to do she steered us towards the room we ended up in. We told the Riv we had our own staff and supplies, and she said the penthouse was a much better choice than a sky box.

I suggest if you do anything with the Riv GET IT IN WRITING! Don't let yourself get screwed like we did.

Actually, we had our own bartender (my boyfriend), our own booze, outside catering, and absolutely no problem until after the fact. The hotel staff set up the skybox the way we wanted early on Saturday. They brought us ice and kept our trash bins empty until the wee hours. The only hiccup was the whole ID debacle and even that went pretty smoothly.

It was only after the hotel discovered the general mess and a bit of specific mess that they went nuts. That was eventually smoothed over. Excepting the question of who supplies the bartenders and booze, there were no concerns over throwing another party in the skyboxes this year, at least for Ninja Networks.

[not5150]

Yes, the people who were banned could most likley sneak past security and get into defcon. However, is it worth the risk? For me, no it's not. DefCon is fun, I have a blast every year and always learn new and interesting things, but after figuring the cost of not only a trip to vegas, but the cost of bail and lawyers if I am arrested, makes it not worth it.

I used to work at a casino and I can honestly say that you won't be able to sneak past security for more than a few minutes. Casinos have surveillance officers that man the cameras in the control room and roam the floors. They, along with the regular guards, are insanely good at picking out bans.

We used to have unofficial contests on who could grab the most bans in a shift or during the week. I'm amazed at how good some people were at picking out bans that were several years old.

Back in the days the bans (both temp and permanent) were entered into a hand-written book.. but I'm sure that casinos these days have everything in a digital database.

[Dallas]

So I wonder if the Ninjas will invite us to their party this year as we cannot hold one this year? I still plan on having tons of extra JuJu Juice for anyone.

- Dallas (Former 6407 party staff )

:(


I used to work at a casino and I can honestly say that you won't be able to sneak past security for more than a few minutes. Casinos have surveillance officers that man the cameras in the control room and roam the floors. They, along with the regular guards, are insanely good at picking out bans.

We used to have unofficial contests on who could grab the most bans in a shift or during the week. I'm amazed at how good some people were at picking out bans that were several years old.

Back in the days the bans (both temp and permanent) were entered into a hand-written book.. but I'm sure that casinos these days have everything in a digital database.

[punkrokk]

Create a dodgeball venue for this?

[Dallas]

yes, good idea.

Create a dodgeball venue for this?