The Riv

[adam]

As much extra space as the new location gives us, it seems to come at a fairly high price. Last year it was growing pains, they were getting used to us, and vice versa, so I can understand things going amiss. The fire marshal going though things with a fine tooth comb, and such.

At first I thought that I was the only one who wasn't happy with how the hotel handled things, but I quickly found out otherwise. The beef I have with management is that I got stuck in the elevator (hey, it happens) but not only did it take them over an hour to get me out, they refused to open the doors and just let me out. Furthermore they actively prevented a friend of mine from getting me out and told him to leave, as if witnesses weren't allowed. When they finally did get me out they videotaped me, wanted identification, had me fill out a report and all the typical paperwork. But they didn't even bother to apologize. When I asked why there wasn't anything in the inside of the elevator indicating when the elevator was last inspected the security guard chuckled and said he didn't know how often they inspected them. I understand there's the liability factor, and that the Riveria isn't responsible for their own elevators (apparently they contract it out to a company called "Otis"). I spoke with the head of risk management and was informed that the response I got was the best they could do.

I'm not going to go into details about how/why the top of the riv party got shut down. If you were there, you know what happened and what didn't happen. And if you were there a little bit before it got shut down, you saw the foreshadowing.

That being said, I think it's the best we can do for now. The convention itself was good, as usual. We had a lot of fun hosting aCTF and all the players I spoke with said they had a blast. I didn't really get to any talks, but the contest area was fun. The vendors had cool stuff as attractive prices and were really cool about hooking us up with prizes at the last minute. We couldn't ask anything more from anyone who was part of defcon, be they a goon, speaker, vendor, or a mere human.

As for me, I'll just look into staying at Circus Circus next year and that should solve the problem I have with how the hotel responded to my incident. And I stick to the parties that are off-site I think all should be well.

[erehwon]

I'm curious why the bottled water in the Riv store closest to the convention floor was selling water considerably cheaper for the Greeks than during Defcon. :cry:

[not5150]

How much was the water for us compared to the Greeks?

[scorche]

Also, there was the matter of hotel security not letting people past the beginning of the CTF area at least Saturday morning. Apparently, "Defcon is closed and doesn't open till 10:00 AM" even though you can still hear the music from the contest area and people were still in there. I just went up top to the skyboxes and went around to enter contest area. They were not there Sunday morning, so I assume that was taken care of.

[Israel Torres]

I got stuck in the elevator (hey, it happens)
That's plain nuts... You were overly calm when I spoke to you on the phone as it was happening and I can't believe that they didn't try and compensate for your time and trouble. I know of at least one group of people that got upgraded for a lot less inconvenience as compared to yours.:mad:

[Abby_Normal]

I was one of the folks behind the penthouse party this year and last. I have to say I thought Riv security was MUCH better this year. While there were some problems that I'd rather not go into, things went much more smoothly this year.

Last year they were aggressive and conformational, like they wanted a fight. This year they were much more willing to talk and listen. They also have started to see that for the most part we police ourselves.

I think by next year things will be even better. They are still getting to know us, but I think they are coming around.

[kallahar]

Heh, I heard about the elevator call. Apparently the riv was positive they didn't have an elevator with that number, so they just didn't do anything about it for about 15 minutes. Then they found out, and finally called the elevator manufacturer, Otis. Otis took 45 minutes to get there. I'm not sure why they weren't apologetic, maybe you didn't complain enough ;)

[adam]

That's plain nuts... You were overly calm when I spoke to you on the phone as it was happening and I can't believe that they didn't try and compensate for your time and trouble. I know of at least one group of people that got upgraded for a lot less inconvenience as compared to yours.:mad:
To me, it's not really worth getting all bent out of shape over. We're all adults here, so if they say that's the best I can expect from them then, that's fine. Perhaps my high standards will be better served elsewhere. And like you and your story of getting the shaft, I'll just let people know what happened. Maybe some others who were on the fence will bail on the Riv. I don't think they'll care, but it's the principle that counts, right? IMO, Circus Circus has better deals on food & alcohol anyways.

Heh, I heard about the elevator call. Apparently the riv was positive they didn't have an elevator with that number, so they just didn't do anything about it for about 15 minutes. Then they found out, and finally called the elevator manufacturer, Otis. Otis took 45 minutes to get there. I'm not sure why they weren't apologetic, maybe you didn't complain enough ;)
That's fairly accurate, however this was a multi-threaded call for help. At the same time I had a mate talk to the hotel staff I rang the bell on the lift like a maniac. Then someone started ringing their elevator "alarm." I figured it was just another Defcon attendee thinking it was a joke but when I opened the elevator doors and started shouting it turns out there was a security guard about 2 meters away who acknowledged I was stuck. So they knew about the situation after about 5 minutes, which is probably what prompted the other thread to say "oh... THAT number 11 elevator..." :-P

I'm glad to hear that things are improving, abby normal. And thanks for throwing what seemed to be one of the best parties at the hotel. Next year I'll see if I can bring a couple liters of Jager for you.

[Schuyler]

Stayed in Circus Circus this time around. I will say this: It is not worth it if you have to cart heavy gear around each day. I was walking to and from the convention space with anywhere from 40 to 80 lbs of gear at least once if not twice a day.

The trips I took without gear were easy and not an issue. Just a heads up to anyone planning on going that route.

[erehwon]

How much was the water for us compared to the Greeks?

A little over double the price.

[jur1st]

why the bottled water in the Riv store closest to the convention floor was selling water considerably cheaper for the Greeks than during Defcon.

The presence of electronic music doubles the price.

[adam]

Stayed in Circus Circus this time around. I will say this: It is not worth it if you have to cart heavy gear around each day.

Yeah, we hope to have a much more compact setup next year for aCTF. Just depends on how things go between now and then, if potential sponsors pull through, and so on. For anyone hosting a contest, you're pretty much going to need at least one room at the Riveria. This year dc949 had 3 rooms.

[shrdlu]

Yeah, we hope to have a much more compact setup next year for aCTF. Just depends on how things go between now and then, if potential sponsors pull through, and so on. For anyone hosting a contest, you're pretty much going to need at least one room at the Riveria. This year dc949 had 3 rooms.

This is unfortunately true. There are much nicer places that I'd rather stay at, but it's just too much to try and haul things back and forth, and *I* only have to worry about one morning. I would never try dealing with something like aCTF without a base of operations in the hotel.

[bascule]

Stayed in Circus Circus this time around. I will say this: It is not worth it if you have to cart heavy gear around each day. I was walking to and from the convention space with anywhere from 40 to 80 lbs of gear at least once if not twice a day.

The trips I took without gear were easy and not an issue. Just a heads up to anyone planning on going that route.

I felt that way in general. It doesn't help our room was about as far from the Riv as it could possibly be at Circus Circus, but every trip to the room and back took at least a half hour, if not 45 minutes.

[Schuyler]

I felt that way in general. It doesn't help our room was about as far from the Riv as it could possibly be at Circus Circus, but every trip to the room and back took at least a half hour, if not 45 minutes.

Heh, were you in the KAO motel/motor park section? That's where we were holed up.

[licutis]

.... The beef I have with management is that I got stuck in the elevator (hey, it happens) but not only did it take them over an hour to get me out, they refused to open the doors and just let me out. Furthermore they actively prevented a friend of mine from getting me out and told him to leave, as if witnesses weren't allowed. When they finally did get me out they videotaped me, wanted identification, had me fill out a report and all the typical paperwork. But they didn't even bother to apologize. When I asked why there wasn't anything in the inside of the elevator indicating when the elevator was last inspected the security guard chuckled and said he didn't know how often they inspected them. I understand there's the liability factor, and that the Riveria isn't responsible for their own elevators (apparently they contract it out to a company called "Otis"). I spoke with the head of risk management and was informed that the response I got was the best they could do.

I have some advise for anyone who gets stuck in a elevator. When you get stuck you find you self with two options.

1. Press the button on the phone and wait 1-2 hours to be removed.

2. Pickup your cell phone, call 911, start screaming that you are stuck in a elevator and you need to get out, (think panic attack, easy to fake) ask them to send the fire department. There is one thing that is guaranteed to happen when the fire department gets there in 5-10 mins. They will destroy the elevator, getting you out in the process, leaving the Riv with a very large repair bill. Firefighters just love breaking things with their large assortment of destructive tools, you just keep yelling for help and they will feel compelled to get out the gas powered metal saw and cut a hole in the door. Some FD's will just do this without any prodding others may want you to play up the panic attack angle, remember panic attacks come and go without warning!!

I found myself in this situation and remembered to my days in college when elevator's breaking down was the norm. 20 Minns later the local FD had me out, one elevator door destroyed.........

As far as making you fill out reports!? Thats crazy, I got quite ill at DC12 at the AP and had to take a cab to the hospital (non drinking related.) The AP guard tried to get me to fill out HIS report for him. I handed him his form back with my ID and told him its not my job to fill out his report. This must be a Vegas guard laziness thing. It is there job to write the report of what happened, from there prospective, not yours...

[Thorn]

I have some advise for anyone who gets stuck in a elevator. When you get stuck you find you self with two options.

1. Press the button on the phone and wait 1-2 hours to be removed.

2. Pickup your cell phone, call 911, start screaming that you are stuck in a elevator and you need to get out, (think panic attack, easy to fake) ask them to send the fire department. There is one thing that is guaranteed to happen when the fire department gets there in 5-10 mins. They will destroy the elevator, getting you out in the process, leaving the Riv with a very large repair bill. Firefighters just love breaking things with their large assortment of destructive tools, you just keep yelling for help and they will feel compelled to get out the gas powered metal saw and cut a hole in the door. Some FD's will just do this without any prodding others may want you to play up the panic attack angle, remember panic attacks come and go without warning!!

I found myself in this situation and remembered to my days in college when elevator's breaking down was the norm. 20 Minns later the local FD had me out, one elevator door destroyed.........

As far as making you fill out reports!? Thats crazy, I got quite ill at DC12 at the AP and had to take a cab to the hospital (non drinking related.) The AP guard tried to get me to fill out HIS report for him. I handed him his form back with my ID and told him its not my job to fill out his report. This must be a Vegas guard laziness thing. It is there job to write the report of what happened, from there prospective, not yours...These days, most PDs and FDs have elevator door keys. They can simply open the door rather than destroying it.

[mouseling]

These days, most PDs and FDs have elevator door keys. They can simply open the door rather than destroying it.

As a matter of fact, I have a copy of the NYC fire department elevator Key. Very useful for getting to floors w/o general public access.

-mouse

[Thorn]

As a matter of fact, I have a copy of the NYC fire department elevator Key. Very useful for getting to floors w/o general public access.

-mouseI should clarify what I was talking about, although you probably know this already Mouse. There are typically two such "FD" keys for most elevators. One is the standard type of key used on the elevator car's control panel or the master control panel. This key allows fire personnel to override the controls, and do things such as open doors on "non-public" floors, skip floors on the automatic calls, etc. This is what I think you're talking about.

The second type (what I was talking about initially) is used from the corridor side of the door to gain access to the shaft, and doesn't resemble a normal key at all. Typically these look like a toggle bolt or some kind of odd wrench, and it is inserted in the door itself. If you look at the corridor side of most elevator doors, there is an small (~ 3/8") circular opening about 6' off the floor. That accepts the door key. When inserted, it opens the door directly into the shaft, for access to the elevator car's interior door or the car's roof, floor, and/or cables, depending where the car is in relation to the open door.

Needless to say using one of these door keys may be dangerous in the wrong circumstances, since you may be exposing yourself and others to a VERY long drop, or where elevator cars are moving at a very high rate of speed from above you or below you.

[mouseling]

I only have the former, not the latter. And, I don't think I use it properly anyway. I definitely wouldn't want to fall down the Riv's elevator shaft. As much as I'd like to be, I am not the acrobat in Ocean's 13.

-mouse

I should clarify what I was talking about, although you probably know this already Mouse. There are typically two such "FD" keys for most elevators. One is the standard type of key used on the elevator car's control panel or the master control panel. This key allows fire personnel to override the controls, and do things such as open doors on "non-public" floors, skip floors on the automatic calls, etc. This is what I think you're talking about.

The second type (what I was talking about initially) is used from the corridor side of the door to gain access to the shaft, and doesn't resemble a normal key at all. Typically these look like a toggle bolt or some kind of odd wrench, and it is inserted in the door itself. If you look at the corridor side of most elevator doors, there is an small (~ 3/8") circular opening about 6' off the floor. That accepts the door key. When inserted, it opens the door directly into the shaft, for access to the elevator car's interior door or the car's roof, floor, and/or cables, depending where the car is in relation to the open door.

Needless to say using one of these door keys may be dangerous in the wrong circumstances, since you may be exposing yourself and others to a VERY long drop, or where elevator cars are moving at a very high rate of speed from above you or below you.

[DaKahuna]

I only have the former, not the latter. And, I don't think I use it properly anyway. I definitely wouldn't want to fall down the Riv's elevator shaft. As much as I'd like to be, I am not the acrobat in Ocean's 13.


:biggrin: The sight of Mouse using a key that fits in a hole 6-foot off the floor ! The question is chair or step ladder?