GRINGO WARRIOR - official announcement and signup/interest thread

[Deviant Ollam]

What happens when a good time goes bad? Imagine the following scenario... you are attending a con in Southern California.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-01-toorcon.jpg

On a smoke break outside, people start discussing plans for the evening. No one can decide where to go for the best party.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-03-idea.jpg

Before you know it, Dan Kaminsky puts forth a suggestion...

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-04-kaminsky.jpg

"Let's head down to Tijuana!" he shouts. "We'll have some cheap tequila, maybe see a donkey show... it'll be great!" In a collective effort of half-formed logic and poor planning, everyone is on board with this notion. South of the border you go.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-05-tijuana.jpg

And sure enough, it's a blast. Things get into full swing and everyone's partying hard.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-06-partying.jpg

By the end of the evening, however, it's completely out of control. You pass out, hoping that no one writes on your face or sticks anything in any body orifice.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-07-aftermath.jpg

You awaken in a small room in the back of what appears to be a run-down police station. You become vaguely aware of uniformed individuals speaking to you in a threatening manner.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-08-police%20station.jpg

Making references to violation of laws against public drunkenness, your captors describe monumental fines and penalties. With a sneer, they imply that unless you clean out your bank account using your ATM card you will face considerable jail time.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-09-policia.jpg

They slam the door, saying that they're going to give you some time alone to think about their offer.

Your mind races, your brow sweats. Is this really happening? If you comply, what's to stop them from just dumping you in the desert somewhere? Are these people even really police officers? If they are cops, quite clearly they are corrupt. You come to the determination that you have no intention of going along quietly with their plans. Your captors may have confiscated your wallet and passport... but they didn't notice the lockpicks that you were carrying.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/backstory/backstory-10-lockpicks.jpg

Participants in Gringo Warrior will have five minutes to free themselves from handcuffs, escape from their "cell", get past a guard, retrieve their passport from a locked filing cabinet, leave through another locked door, and make their escape to freedom. The course will offer a variety of locks representing a range of difficulty, allowing participation by people of all skill levels. Points will be awarded based on the time of completion as well as the difficulty of locks attempted. The best warrior of all wins the grand prize!

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/gringo.jpg

[Deviant Ollam]

So what do you have to do?

Part One - Escape from handcuffs.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/course/01-cuffs.jpg

Part Two - Get out of your cell.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/course/02-cell_door.jpg

Part Three - Take out the guard.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/course/03a-police.jpg

Part Four - Retrieve your passport.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/course/04-cabinet.jpg

Part Five - Get outside.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/course/05-deadbolt.jpg

Part Six - Get away.

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/course/06a-policia_car.jpg

As anyone who has played Gringo Warrior in its testing phase at some recent events knows, each stage of the course has multiple attack vectors (an easy, medium, and hard lock for the most part) each of which carry their own point values. So the game can be easily played by even newbies who learn to pick at con, or by experts who want to maximize their score.

Folks will have five minutes to make their escape to freedom! You can do it, i swear... come on out and have a good time!

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/gringo_sm.jpg

Please post in this thread with any comments you have about the times i've setup Gringo Warrior in the past, any runs you may have made through the course, questions you have about the locks, and any potential participation you are hoping to have when this game gets set up at DefCon.

[Schuyler]

Potential participation: +1

Can't wait for it.

[valanx]

Hell yes I'm doing this again.

This time I'm bringing my own blindfold, that duct tape made my face itch forever.

Are we limited on our number of runs?

Are you planning on multiple difficulty levels with the handcuffs again?

Any ideas for what the course is going to look like (ie is that cell coming in from L1)?

For anyone who hasn't done this, it is a lot of fun to participate in this event.

While not scenario based, we've had a few time competitions at the local meetings, but thats a small group and we do 10 locks including handcuffs (I knew those walls would be useful for something). Its also a little bit of practice ahead of time.

[renderman]

Count me in.

This time, be very clear as to what counts for bonus points and what would be for show

[Deviant Ollam]

I'll try to address the questions we've seen thus far...

Course Design - Much like what we've seen before, the course will feature the same overall design (http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/gringo_warrior_course.jpg) in terms of stages, number of locks, etc. I'm rebuilding the locks to make them more stable (the existing ones got pretty raped over time) and delineate the levels further. Particularly, the "advanced" locks (which until now only featured one or two plain jane spool pins) will feature a good number of spool and/or mushroom pins.

Handcuffs - The first stage, of "handcuffs" will still feature an easy, medium, and hard level. As many of you know, each "obstacle" on the course has a specific point value, and completion of said task gives you those points, times a particular multiplier. Historically, the multipliers have been 1x for easy, 3x for medium, and 5x for hard. That is likely to stay the same.

For the handcuffs, the breakdown was typically... easy = in front, basic light cuffing. medium = behind back, cuffed with thumbs out and kinda tight. hard = in front, cuffed hard way all the way down (not blue handed, but cuffed properly) and double-locked in a US marshal transport Blue Box.

That above standard will likely be followed again, with two additional considerations... I will have two pairs of cuffs, the dirtbag "security guard" model made by Valor, and proper "police grade" cuffs by a manufacturer like Smith and Wesson. (Whether i use standard 103's or a hinged set of 300's or Peerless cuffs i haven't decided) Use of the "police grade" cuffs will increase the multiplier by one. but, use of a proper cuff key to get out of cuffs will reduce the multiplier by one. So, (given a 20-point value for the cuff stage) conceivably people could LOSE 20 points (if they put Valor cuffs in front and still need a key to escape) or get 120 points (if they are in front, double-locked and in a marshal service box in S&W's and somehow get out of them with no key)

Of course, this also leads to any number of other permutations and combinations. Use of multiple sets of cuffs on one's hands will likely not be allowed (or, if someone does it, it won't generate super-duper multiplier values... you hear that, CP and Vyrus? hehe)

Bonus Points - There have been two "bonus" point categories in the past (in addition to the simple "time bonus" of seconds left on the clock if you escape before 5 minutes has fully expired) and these two categories will return. One is "disabling the guard" and the other is "being inconspicuous"

Disable the guard - in a nutshell, this pertains to doing anything you can to keep the guard from interfering with your escape and prevent his/her ability to pursue you (without causing damage to the guard itself, of course). These are more like general guidelines as opposed to hard and fast rules... but the basic breakdown is: 1x = just sort of punch or knock over the dummy, 3x = move the guard to your cell or some other spot away from where you are picking the file cabinet/doors, 5x = securing the guard totally either by using one's cuffs from earlier steps or picking the cell door shut again, etc. These are flexible, and a half-assed attempt at a particular level of "incapacitation" may result in, say, a multiplier of two as opposed to three, etc.

Be inconspicuous - this applies primarily to how likely you are to avoid detection and additional pursuit once you've left the facility where you were being illegally held. Simply not leaving behind any of your picks and tools (which could, say, have fingerprints on them or at least be a sign of how you escaped) is good enough for a multiplier of 1x. If you grab a guard uniform (which is often hanging on the wall) and wear it out the door, that's likely good for 3x (assuming you also collected all your tools and passport, etc). Going really above and beyond may get you a higher multiplier, but that requires outright innovation... like re-locking all the locks shut again (through picking) or using a cloth to wipe down all surfaces you touched so as to leave no prints, etc.

as i say above, and as folks have seen before, there is some degree of flexibility with the bonus points, as far as multipliers go, but the framework around which i tend to award them is pretty solid and has some clear guide points.

[valanx]

When you cuff for the hard position, were palms in or out?

[Deviant Ollam]

When you cuff for the hard position, were palms in or out?palms are in, simply because that is the standard when boxed in front...

http://deviating.net/stuff/blackbox1.jpg

http://deviating.net/stuff/blackbox2.jpg

... although i must admit i don't know the standard for which way the "double lock" pins face. I would assume that they technically flip, with one facing up and the other facing down, since the keyways of the cuffs both have to face out and away from the person (and then these keyways are obscured by the box itself, of course.)

or maybe we'll break down the points further... in the box with one keyway exposed is 5x, in the box with no keyways exposed is 6x, etc.

can i get input from some people here about how the handcuff multiplier should break down overall? there are the following categories that can be combined into numerous permutations...

cuff style - crappy vs decent (possibly hinged)
double lock - double lock set vs unset
cuff position - loose in front, proper in back, boxed in front
box covering - exposing keyways vs hidden keyways


things we need to think about are situations like...

crappy cuffs in marshal box with no keyway exposure
- versus -
proper cuffs behind back

because you can bang the double lock and then shim the crappy cuffs even if you're boxed more easily (in my opinion) than you can pick your way out of proper cuffs if they're applied correctly behind your back, how should the multipliers break down?

should it be just a "simple +1 algorithm" for any of the above considerations? like...


crappy cuff = 1, proper cuff = 2
simple lock = 0, double lock = 1
in front = 0, behind back = 1, marshal box = 2
exposed keyway = 0, fully obscured keyway = 1


therefore, some examples would be...


in front, proper cuffs, double locked would be multiplier of 1+2+1 = 3
behind back, crappy cuffs, single locked wold be 1+0+1 = 2
in marshal box (hidden keyway) with crappy cuffs double locked would be 1+1+2+1 = 5
in marshal box (exposed keyway) with proper cuffs single locked would be 2+0+2+0 = 4


see, where i think it gets unfair pertains to that marshal box and hidden keyways... the shim attack against the crappy cuffs doesn't need the keyway at all. yet, we see a multiplier of 5x there as opposed to a "proper cuff, exposed keyway in box" situation which i believe is actually harder, however this is only worth 4x on the multiplier front.

or, does it wash out because of the fact that shimming is really hard to do with your wrists totally locked by properly tightened cuffs and the impeded movement in the marshal box?

i need input on this for sure, people. i want the points to be as fair as possible to all participants.

P.S. - if this winds up kicking half as much ass as some people think it will, someone may need to bestow drinks of a fine nature upon me. :smile: or maybe if the winner already has a black badge they can just give their new one to me like folks did with Lost, since my old black badge went missing ages ago. :frown:

[TheCotMan]

I have updated the description of the "Lockpicking contest" to include the contests/items mentioned above individually, so people using the "find" option in their browser on the contests/events forum list can find these contests/events. Since Gringo Warrior has a link, the listed entry for it is a link to the same url you provided.

Did you want to change the title from "Lockpicking Contest" to "Lockpicking Contests"? (minus the bold/emphasis on the pluralization.)

[Deviant Ollam]

Did you want to change the title from "Lockpicking Contest" to "Lockpicking Contests"?that is a fine, fine idea, methinks.

[valanx]

palms are in, simply because that is the standard when P.S. - if this winds up kicking half as much ass as some people think it will, someone may need to bestow drinks of a fine nature upon me. :smile: or maybe if the winner already has a black badge they can just give their new one to me like folks did with Lost, since my old black badge went missing ages ago. :frown:

I'm fairly certain that certain corked bottles will be made available to you from our stores of liver damaging chemicals.


On the scoring, have you done any tests to see how feasible it will be for someone to get out of the double locked S&W cuffs? How many attempts are people going to have? That may play a role as well in how daring people get with their levels of difficulty. If that is limited I'm not sure how many people are going to rush to put on hinge cuffs with a marshall block and try getting out of them.

What about those chinese cuffs? Do you have another set of those? They weren't impossible to get off, but they did weigh about a ton. I'm thinking that the unusually thin will have an advantage here in any handcuff situation though.

You could save more difficult scenarios/positions for the finals runs, or in the event of a tie maybe.

Can we have a level of inebriation bonus?

[Deviant Ollam]

wow! holy questions, batman! no, seriously... i love this, as i am huge fan of starting all design and planning wicked early and doing lots of revising so that when the curtains go up, everything is super kickass. (the reason i'm happy to bring Gringo Warrior to a number of smaller cons before DefCon is not just to hype the game and get people talking... it's also where i've been learning tons about what works well, what doesn't, etc.)

how feasible it will be for someone to get out of the double locked S&W cuffs?i have never tried it. i will have on hand a second, spare set of each style of cuff used in the game... i can assure you that. they will serve as both examples in the village (where potential contestants can learn) and work as a practice item.

i should point out... i'm rebuilding almost all the locks in the game (i spent a lot of my time at work today doing that when i should have been working) since they've been badly beaten up. a new rule will be if you are playing with the course locks any time outside of your actual competition run, you are automatically disqualified and chased from the room with pitchforks and torches. i'm so fucking sick and tired of bozos dicking around with the locks after we keep telling them to fuck off. i'm likely going to use some sort of system like what you sometimes see on parking meters on sundays... the bags that lock overtop so people can't touch anything if the contest is "resting" etc etc.

How many attempts are people going to have? That may play a role as well in how daring people get with their levels of difficulty.currently, my theory is everyone gets one run during the saturday primary window of competition. around 5:00 we move the whole course to the stage, and the top five finalists get to make one additional run to potentially improve their score. whichever score is better is counted as the participant's top score. five minutes per person, with a max of five minutes per run, and a minute to reset, gives that last "super final" round a full time of half an hour. we wrap up totally at 5:30, so plenty of time for me to get a shower, get loaded, get laid, get dinner, and get loaded even more before the parties start that night.

What about those chinese cuffs? Do you have another set of those?i used to have two sets. one i turned into a cut-away/dissected unit, the other i gave to Barry Wels when i was in Amsterdam this spring. so i have one half of a fully-functional PRC police cuff. i should look into emailing folk and trying to get more.

I'm thinking that the unusually thin will have an advantage here in any handcuff situation though.address all such concerns to renderman.

You could save more difficult scenarios/positions for the finals runs, or in the event of a tie maybe.perhaps. we can brainstorm about that, as well.

Can we have a level of inebriation bonus?it's not a bad idea. maybe something very minor... like multiply your B.A.C. by 1000 and round off any decimals, then that's a bonus value. so someone who blows a .08 would get 80 bonus points. of course we'd have to be monitoring someone for 10 minutes prior to their blow if they say they want those points. at the end of their run, we'd quarantine them and then give them the test, adding in the bonus later maybe. anything over .2 would likely be discounted, however, so DefCon isn't seen as encouraging massively unsafe drinking. there's also the fact that under-21 participants wouldn't get such a bonus.

maybe we take the highest B.A.C. that is seen the whole time, and apply that level of bonus to all under-21 players. heh, of course that could lead to some team-scheming... someone's mom runs the course (badly) and blows a .19, letting her 14-year-old daughter run it later and collect an extra 190 points for free, hah.

as always, discussion and commentary from all of you make this whole contest better each step of the way. :biggrin:

[valanx]

i have never tried it. i will have on hand a second, spare set of each style of cuff used in the game... i can assure you that. they will serve as both examples in the village (where potential contestants can learn) and work as a practice item.


We'll have a couple of sets of cheap cuffs as well that we'll have up with the torii walls. Along with various other things just in case someone forgets something.


a new rule will be if you are playing with the course locks any time outside of your actual competition run, you are automatically disqualified and chased from the room with pitchforks and torches.


Mr. Potter will be disappointed.


currently, my theory is everyone gets one run during the saturday primary window of competition.


That is going to make quite the gamble for which lock to go for. I'm going to have to practice more.


address all such concerns to renderman.

I wasn't going to name names or anything...

[Deviant Ollam]

That is going to make quite the gamble for which lock to go for. I'm going to have to practice more.i am not 100% on this, but it might make sense to allow people to "attempt" multiple locks on any given stage. i mean, if you take a stab at the "hard" lock and can't get it, we've historically allowed people to downshift to medium or easy (since they need to get something open to proceed)

However, we have discouraged people in the past from attempting harder locks once they've opened a specific one. Maybe we'll change this. The multipliers won't be cumulative (you can't get like an 8x 20 point value for opening all three doorknobs) but perhaps you can attempt and work with any locks you feel like on the course and the best ones you get open are what counts.

Keep in mind, there is a significant trade-off there. Since every second remaining on the clock is worth a point, attempting to try the "hard" lock for 45 seconds and failing to get it, then trying the "medium" and opening it in right away will actually hurt you... since you've burned 45 seconds (and thus 45 points) attempting an initial goal (the hard lock) which had the ability to add a maximum of 40 additional points to your score.

Essentially, many people have failed to realize that it's almost never a good idea to attempt just about any lock on the course for more than 30 seconds. If you can't get it open after half a minute, try something easier. The five seconds you take to re-adjust your tools and the five seconds you then take to open the easier lock (assuming you can pop the easier one right away) will work out in a wash. Attempting any lock for more than 30 seconds almost never works out to your advantage on the score sheet.

I will point out that the door knobs and deadbolts will be all keyed alike (not all three... but rather, the "easy" doorknob will match the "easy" deadbolt, and so on) so you sort of get to "practice" and gather intel on the second stage (escaping one's cell) but there may be a few more tricks in the bag that make the deadbolts a little harder than the standard knobs. :wink:

[valanx]

Did you get the car locks figured out? I know the hard one never worked at notacon.

[Deviant Ollam]

Did you get the car locks figured out? I know the hard one never worked at notacon.actually, it did initially... i don't know exactly what people did to that poor thing. it's still destroyed. i will have eBay'ed for a new one before DefCon.

[valanx]

actually, it did initially... i don't know exactly what people did to that poor thing. it's still destroyed. i will have eBay'ed for a new one before DefCon.

Hope I didn't break that. I just know it didnt open when I asked it nicely. We just went through a maintenance run on our locks here with a lot of graphite and pin changeouts.

I've had good luck with eBay lately, picking up several lots of locks that I'm using to build little practice boards people can check out at our local meetings. My favorite though was the Kaba mini on a little switch.

Interesting lot of kaba locks up on ebay today actually. Reminded me of a cylon.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Locksmith-6-Kaba-710-Solitaire-II-Locks_W0QQitemZ280231355784QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6703 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not that I just went off the topic of conversation by much or anything.

[Schuyler]

Regarding the handcuff situation - rather than do all the multipliers, etc. - why not just do 3, or if you want to offer more possibilities, 5 setups with specific point values?

Also - Will we know the make and model of car before we hop on our planes? :D

[Deviant Ollam]

So, i've fully rebuilt the Gringo Warrior course. New photos of it can be found on the game's hardware page (http://deviating.net/lockpicking/gringo/hardware). It's more lightweight but also stronger and more stable. I can get the whole game into a single hard case now along with all of its supporting gear, etc.

Along with the new hardware, the locks themselves are all rebuilt. New knobs & deadbolts fresh from the Home Depot have all been re-pinned according to the contest specs. A wafer lock that fell apart during the trip home from L.A. was replaced and a new car ignition has been added for the "hard" level automobile lock.

All i have to do is order some new handcuffs and we'll be all set for DefCon. :biggrin:

(Expect reports and photos concerning how this new course fares at ShakaCon this coming week. I'm expecting good things, i am not scared to say.)

[valanx]

That pipe system is great, its kind of like what I'm doing with the wheels I'm working on. Having to bring a bunch of stuff everywhere, especially as much wood as I had before really got me looking to make much lighter and easier to transport equipment.

At least for some of my items.

I can't wait to try this out.

[litsuka]

This rocks, will it be busy? A line or sign up sheet to do this?
I like the beginner idea, Ive never tried something like this but I want to have a go at it hehe

[Deviant Ollam]

This rocks, will it be busy? A line or sign up sheet to do this?it's tended to be hopping when i've test-run it at other cons, but this is DEFCON... loads of stuff happening all at once. so i'd be willing to bet that people will be spread pretty thin.

my guess is that we'll have a combination of both a line and a sign-up sheet type of system.

[warelock]

Sounds like a blast! Sign me up.