Programming

[Nicatu]

I'm a bit outdated on the subject so i got 2 questions

1. What programming language would you recommend to start with.

2. Why do you recommend the language.



The knowledge that i have is dated back to basic and turbo basic, so i'm going to start back from the beginning.

I was thinking about java but i have been told that java works rather slow compaired to others.

[lil_freak]

I like COBOL , but most people don't.

You may want to start with C++. Also I recommend taking an Introduction to Programming Logic, it helps.

If you go with C++ try some of these books:

Tools For Structured Design, An Introduction to Programming Logic
ISBN: 0-13-020037-9

C++ from the Ground Up
ISBN: 0-07-882405-02

Object-Oriented Programming Using C++
ISBN: 0-619-03361-4

[bluntman]

I like and recommend C++. It's great language to start with. Once you have the concepts down like arrays, functions, pointers..., any language will be easy. For books, anything by O'Reilly is good. I have taken Java programming in school, but I liked C++ a lot better.

[jesse]

1, C
2, because it's fundamental

[astcell]

Damn I'm old, I would have said BASIC or FORTRAN.

[Qu|rk]

I started with assembly, then went to VB, then C... I did it ass backward, so we'll use this as an example of what not to do.
I concur that C/C++ would be a great start, and there are many resources out there to help you - TICPP would be a good start, it's a downloadable book with source code examples to get you moving.

Quirk-

[simple3]

As much as I love C, I don't think C or C++ is a good language for someone starting out. Now while it is completely possible to learn to program by learning C++, I just don;t think it is the best Idea. Despite my complete hatred of the language, my vote would have to be for Java or a similar language for learning. It is much easier to learn if you know nothing. Actually Unreal script might make for an interesting first language too. And it might be more fun.


--simple3

[highwizard]

Learn PERL First

[kiono]

Python, it's a non-win based programming language. It can be very powerful too.

[jesse]

python is available for windows dude, Bit Torrent was written in python.

[LiteHedded]

i'd recommend VB before moving to c but thats just me

[noid]

Thing is, VB and C/C++ are apples and oranges as far as programming goes. Learning VB isnt going to help you to learn C other than teaching you basic programming techniques.

[bascule]

Java is a terrible first language... here's my laundry list:

No unsigned types. I WTFed at this 8 years ago and I'm still WTFing at it today. There's absolutely no excuse for this... it's a ludicrous, ridiculous costraint which makes Java an absolutely atrocious choice for a number of different applications. And did I mention the >>> operator? Ewww...

Lack of multiple inheritance. This could be a non-issue except Sun decided to construct the entire Java class library as a single heirarchy. I'm sorry, but some things just don't fit into heirarchies very well, and the Java class library is full of good examples.

Syntactic hacks. The Java compiler will happily operate on string literals, Strings, or StringBuffers with the '+' operator, despite Java's supposed lack of operator overloading. Clearly Sun has decided operator overloding is necessary enough that they created a special case hack for it in the compiler, but it's a tool too powerful for you as a programmer to wield.

Primitive types... interoperability with primitive types in Java is horrible... there are no mutable primitive type wrappers, but why would you want to use them anyway if the language doesn't support operator overloading?

I'd recommend starting with a structured language like C. The problem with object orientation is that it's very easy to overuse, and wind up with leaky abstractions which tremendously limit scalability (much like Microsoft just did in .NET with XMLRPC) It's very easy to abuse object orientation and try to use it for everything, and instead of structures you end up with objects with many needless get/set methods but no invariant state to maintain. Objects are state management tools and should be utilized as such. Unfortunately, most universities have forgotten this and teach the use of pervasive object orientation which ultimately only serves to increase code complexity.

The other problem with starting with a language like Java is learning manual heap management. If you're used to a garbage collected environment, you're probably not going to want to transition out of it. It's like learning standard versus automatic transmission first... anyone who learns a standard transmission can easily transition to an automatic, but those who learn automatic may have a tough time transitioning simply because they're set in their ways and don't want to change.

So, my recommendation would be to start with C and then transition to C++. C's core syntax consists of 40 some commands, as opposed to the monsterously byzantine syntax of most object oriented languages, most notably C++. C is a great way to get your feet wet, and a language from which you can easily transition to a number of others including C++, Objective C, Java, and PHP.

As for BASIC, I think this quote from Dijkstra sums it up pretty nicely:

"It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."

[bascule]

Damn I'm old, I would have said BASIC or FORTRAN.

Fortran 95 is definitely the language to learn if you want to do anything with scientific computing.

[kallahar]

It also depends a lot on what you want to do. If you're interested in doing web stuff then go with PHP or Perl or Python or JScript. If you want to write non www apps then go with C (then C++).

PHP, Perl, JScript, C, and C++ all have fairly similar basic structures so once you learn one you can pick up the others fairly easily. But VBScript and Python are quite different in structure.