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[Defcon 17] DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

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  • #16
    Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

    Ahahahaha.

    Aces Joe, Aces.

    LosT

    Originally posted by Kingpin View Post
    Nope :)

    Joe

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    • #17
      Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

      However, this year will require a bit more soldering skill to get it up and running and you will need a level shifter to convert the 3V TTL-level serial of the badge to RS232 or USB level.
      I don't really have a lot of experience with hardware, and this confused me a bit. I thought standard TTL was 5 volts, not 3, and wikipedia claims that USB is actually native 3V. FTDI's site was actually advertising a TTL to USB shifter, which is what started my suspicion.

      So, is a level shifter necessary for USB communication, or just interfacing with 5V components?

      edit:
      Reading the product page more closely, I find:
      This version of FTDI's USB to TTL serial adapter cables has it's I/O pins configured to operate at 3.3V levels.
      Is the cable just needed for converting USB signals to RS232?
      Last edited by YenTheFirst; 07-21-2009, 08:06 PM.
      It's not stupid, it's advanced.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

        It looks a little more involved. Please spend some time in the HHV I am sure you will get your questions answered.

        The cable has one of these chips in it.

        http://www.ftdichip.com/Documents/Da...T232R_V204.pdf

        http://www.ftdichip.com/Images/ttl232rsch1.jpg

        The FT232R is a USB to serial UART
        interface with the following advanced
        features:
        • Single chip USB to asynchronous serial data
        transfer interface.
        • Entire USB protocol handled on the chip. No
        USB specific firmware programming required.

        Originally posted by YenTheFirst View Post
        I don't really have a lot of experience with hardware, and this confused me a bit. I thought standard TTL was 5 volts, not 3, and wikipedia claims that USB is actually native 3V. FTDI's site was actually advertising a TTL to USB shifter, which is what started my suspicion.

        So, is a level shifter necessary for USB communication, or just interfacing with 5V components?

        edit:
        Reading the product page more closely, I find:


        Is the cable just needed for converting USB signals to RS232?
        Last edited by bombnav; 07-21-2009, 08:26 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

          Originally posted by 0x58 View Post
          Can you give us an idea as to what pins we have available? The amount of I/O's and such would be nice to know ahead of time.
          Just read the controller spec sheet. You can always pull any pin directly from the controller.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

            Just think "Iron Chef America"! What you may say? Well, when one competes in the "Iron Chef" cooking challenge each chef already has an idea of all the courses to cook. They just do not know the secret ingredient.

            So, with the badge hacking contest. You know the processor. What do you want it to do? There is a DSP, do you want a DTMF dialer?

            I think the team that will win the Black Badge this year will already have a plan for what they want the badge to do even before they see the badge.

            We know we have a chip that is both a DSP and a micro controller. So. you can already start brainstorming. We know last year the badge was built to have interactivity with other badges. So, maybe this years badge maybe the same.

            Teams that come with a base design and parts are the teams that will win!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

              Also SparkFun has a great little 3.3v FTDI board which is great for doing chip reprogramming, and drivers are available for Linux / OS X / Windows:

              http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...oducts_id=8772

              They have >300 in stock, which is good. I use them all the time for USB programming of AVR based boards, and they are a generic USB->3.3V TTL serial device.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                cheap source of the level converters are the nokia DKU-5's etc, 3.3v, you can find them for a few $.

                just make sure you get the right ones, some are pure usb, some 5v, some are level converters ( the ones with the longer usb plug are usually the right ones)
                - Null Space Labs

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                  ups had it out for delivery for 3 days, finally got here though with our current weather iw as expecting melted cd's. Picked it up from freescale directly.

                  - Null Space Labs

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                    i've always had a bit of a love/hate relationship with codewarrior and it seemingly continues!

                    So FYI for me its very unstable with windows 7 32b 7100, 4 times out of 5 it'll crash on startup, shutdown or in use, and if you install it in Virtual XP, it's not licensed to run in a 'terminal server'

                    It also doesn't work with 64 bit windows, it is said to be supported on Vista 32, i did check it in the various compatibility modes.

                    Time to install Vista 32 then, and give that a shuftie.
                    - Null Space Labs

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                      just an FYI

                      The hardware hacking kits this year will INCLUDE a level shifter that will work ...

                      But the kits will likely sell out on Thursday.

                      LosT

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                        Will they be available at 8am when badge sales open?

                        Originally posted by LosT View Post
                        just an FYI

                        The hardware hacking kits this year will INCLUDE a level shifter that will work ...

                        But the kits will likely sell out on Thursday.

                        LosT

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                          Ok, I think I have made some good progress with CodeWarrior and Processor Expert.

                          I am very new to this whole DSP + Microcontroller programming. Or a DSM :)

                          This tutorial really helped me understand CodeWarrior and Processor Expert.

                          http://www.processorexpert.com/lnk_m..._tutorial.php#

                          Take a look at all the "Beans" we have to work with. There is even a OS. I do not think that "MicroC_OS_II" will be used on the badge because the source needs to be downloaded and it may even need a license.

                          There are still a lot of telephone type beans. Just a guess. Oh, and even a DSP for 3DES and DES. Cool chip.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                            How will the contest be judged? Is it a largely subjective thing, where it's just the design you like best, or is it something a little more objective, like how "evil" the badge is? Also, for exceedingly evil badges, when a full demonstration would be a flagrant violation of the law, is it enough just to demonstrate that it WOULD work? ;)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                              Originally posted by some.hacker View Post
                              How will the contest be judged? Is it a largely subjective thing, where it's just the design you like best, or is it something a little more objective, like how "evil" the badge is? Also, for exceedingly evil badges, when a full demonstration would be a flagrant violation of the law, is it enough just to demonstrate that it WOULD work? ;)
                              The contest is completely subjective (I'm the only judge and I don't accept bribes...yet) and is based on how cool, unique, mischievous, interesting, and technically competent the hack is. :)

                              See previous contests and results here to get an idea of the caliber of entry:

                              http://www.grandideastudio.com/portf...fcon-14-badge/
                              http://www.grandideastudio.com/portf...fcon-15-badge/
                              http://www.grandideastudio.com/portf...fcon-16-badge/

                              Joe

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: DC17 Badge Pre-Release Information

                                Originally posted by Kingpin View Post
                                The contest is completely subjective (I'm the only judge and I don't accept bribes...yet) and is based on how cool, unique, mischievous, interesting, and technically competent the hack is. :)

                                See previous contests and results here to get an idea of the caliber of entry:

                                http://www.grandideastudio.com/portf...fcon-14-badge/
                                http://www.grandideastudio.com/portf...fcon-15-badge/
                                http://www.grandideastudio.com/portf...fcon-16-badge/

                                Joe
                                *rubs hands together evil-style* Muh-ha-ha-ha-ha!

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