Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

    Thank you to everyone who came to this year's DEFCON Shoot. it was the largest one we've had in this latest generation of the event, and i'm amazed that we had as smooth a time as we did. everyone seemed to get along, everyone was safe, and everyone got to shoot.

    We had a total of sixteen people act as RSOs, rotating in four shifts of four. I cannot thank you enough, everyone who volunteered. Noid, Dallas, Quiet, Babak, Dr. Tran, and the great number of others who also helped out but whose names elude me (Kyord? Boreal? pretty certain that you two were also part of the safety side of things.)

    That said, if we have anything like this year's turnout next time (and i would actually anticipate higher turnout, if you can imagine) we are going to need to make some serious regulatory changes for me to be comfortable with the whole affair.

    I would love to hear people's thoughts on the following...

    1. More direct control over the firing line positions. - This year we had our "primary" firing line marked by about a 50' rope and it had, i'm going to guess, 20 to 25 shooters going at the same time (with lots of people waiting behind and rotating in and out)

    This was too many people and crowding was getting quite rough. We created an entirely new and separate firing line on the other side of the large hill, and that line tended to have almost the same number of active shooters by the time the day got rolling.

    Next year, i want to have our staff mark off designated firing line positions, about four or five feet wide, and keep things restricted to that sort of zone. Multiple people can "share" a box if they wish, but only one shooter at a time will be permitted on the line in any given box.

    2. Better marking of fire and safe lines - This year all we had was the main firing line, and during cease-fire we asked people to move six feet back from it as RSO's checked the guns and called the range safe. Many people noted that it was hard to determine if people were really far back enough. i want to mark off a designated distance next time. Do we feel six feet is still proper?

    3. More firing line space overall - I want the "B" range on the far side of the hill to be given the same treatment as the "A" range where we had marker ropes this time. Indeed, as i will suggest in the next point, there may be a "C" range even further along... but again, only if we can properly mark and regulate it with RSOs.

    4. More RSOs - i feel we had things rather well managed this time around, but only due to the extreme professionalism of the volunteer staff and the fact that all participants were very decent to one another, etc.

    next time around, i would think that we're going to want between seven and ten RSOs at any given time (depending on whether or not we have the "C" range running) i'm thinking that we could use the top of the large hill in-between the two main ranges at an oversight point, as long as the lines are laid out in a way that keeps this hilltop station in a safe position.

    5. Shoot Shop - Unless people think of it as crass, i'd like to set up a small shop stand next year. a place where people can easily acquire things like ammo, eyes/ears, maybe snacks, and water (which will be free). the shoot shirts will also be made available there to those who pre-order them.

    i want to clarify that in no way am i attempting to undercut or interfere with others' sales of their own ammo and such. a fully free market is always going to be permitted at the Shoot as long as i have my way... but this might be a convenience to folk who are willing to show up with guns to share and yet do not wish to travel with ammo.

    this year, we found most folk offering ten rounds for five dollars in most calibers. it made for nice, even money transactions. (it also made things like .308 a bit of a steal, while 9mm and .45 were a little more pricey)

    if there is a shoot shop next year selling ammo, it will be factory loads in brass casings. any other considerations we should have if this ammo is potentially going through others' guns?

    6. Shoot Supplies - for next year, i'm likely going to prepare a whole "kit" that we will use... orange vests/hats for all RSOs, specific colored ropes for the lines, small hoops of metal to anchor them in the ground, and so forth.

    anything i put together in this fashion will become property of the DC Shoot itself, of course, and anyone who may run the event in the future once i pass it along will inherit it.

    7. Pre-Reg for lanes on the B Range? - as in the past, the A Range (closest to the parking area, visible when we all arrive) will be the "sharing" range, where people can feature their firearms and allow others to get some trigger time. the B Range may be a more private affair, with groups who want to shoot guns among themselves and people they know, but not publicly offering access to simply anyone.

    if people want to reserve a block of time on the B range, maybe we'll have a system whereby people can PayPal a small amount like $5 and be put on a list. i really don't like the idea of money changing hands like that... i want the event to remain essentially "free" as much as possible, but i am hoping to come up with some way of reserving space for those who wish.

    perhaps it can help pay for the orange vests, etc.

    8. Attendee List? - Here's a bit of a controversial question. Do we want to have a pre-registered attendee list? It would be a little bit hard to regulate, given that the only way to do it would be to use the driveway entrance as a choke point in order to ask each carload of people who they are... but is there any merit it somehow limiting the Shoot to people who have contacted us before the morning of the event?

    i'm not asking for much here, just a way to have people not be at a party on Wednesday night, hear about the Shoot, and decide to just show up in the lobby the next morning without us knowing them from Adam.

    again, i'm looking more for ideas here than for approval of this notion specifically. i am seeking ways that we can regulate attendance fairly and perhaps also keep a decent ratio of armed vs unarmed attendees.

    9. Sponsors? - another major bit of uncharted territory would be the question of sponsorship. is this anything that would interest us? i know that having some really nice ear protection for the RSOs (maybe something that would accept radio input or some such) would kick some ass. do we think that any outfit would be interested in providing that, just on loan to us?

    what about the time the guys from Gem-Tec came out with a lot of their suppressed gear in order to let people experience it?

    anyone else know of a gun rental outfit that would be willing to show up and offer a really great deal on some trigger time with full-autos, etc? unless they can offer pricing that would be essentially half of what one pays at a place like The Gun Store i don't think we'd be interested.

    the whole idea of sponsorship overall doesn't sit particularly well with me... but i figured i'd bring it up and see what people thought when they were discussing the other questions, too.


    thank you again to all who participated. with your input, next year will be even better.a
    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
    - Trent Reznor

  • #2
    Re: Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

    Here's my thoughts on some of your points for next year:

    1. Use a demarcation point for each firing position, such as an empty ammo can, potato sack, or cordoned area.

    2. My suggestion would be to mark the firing line with one color of rope/550 and the safety line with another. Generally, I'd recommend red for fire and white for safety (easy for shooters to remember).
    I'd say 8 feet between the two lines, mainly because a taller shooter in the prone, shouldn't have to cross the safety line while firing ;)

    5. A shoot shop would definitely be good, and I may be able to provide all of the ear protection as well. I don't think we need to get fancy with sight-black, lubricant, or mag loaders, but the essentials will definitely be appreciated (especially bottles of water in the Vegas heat).

    9. Regarding the sponsors,
    I'm not sure how willing local retailers would be. I'd think they'd be more willing to do a "group buy" style of discount, rather than a sponsorship.
    I can call around and put out some feelers to see how receptive they are.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

      I wasn't there this year (Next year, for sure) but here's an idea for you to avoid paypal while still getting money for the event and having people be able to reserve positions.

      Simply: collect the reservation fees in ammo on-site which is then sold at the community ammo shop.
      Coffee is a lost art, best not left to Starbucks.
      I brew the beer I drink.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

        Originally posted by Xeon View Post
        Simply: collect the reservation fees in ammo on-site which is then sold at the community ammo shop.
        while i think i understand what you're saying, there arises a problem or two...

        1. if something is collected on-site, then it's not really a "reservation" fee... i can't count in advance of the shoot just how many stations are being reserved

        2. ammo sold at the shoot shop will be factory ammo of a certain quality and specific casing. i cannot verify that in advance if someone else is bringing the ammo and i don't want staff getting into debates with people attempting to "pay" for their lanes with steel-cases russian surplus rounds.

        nice notion, however. we'll keep at it.
        "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
        - Trent Reznor

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

          1. More direct control over the firing line positions.

          I assume that spray painting the ground is a huge no no. Is there biodegradable paint we can use? Stakes and twine would mean an advance element going out earlier. A shitload of rope? More organization is going to mean more more overhead, though I agree. Hot brass showers were common this time.

          2. Better marking of fire and safe lines

          If you went the Stakes and twine or rope method, you would just basically make boxes. A stake every five feet, one long line in front, long line in back, and then break them off. That actually sounds like a huge pain in the ass now that I describe it. Is there such a thing as biodegradable spray paint? That would simplify immensely. Use a chalk liner like for a baseball field? During a cold range they would need to exit and remain outside the back of the box.

          3. More firing line space overall

          I like the idea of a designated sharing range. I felt like there were either fewer people that came without guns this time, or more people sharing. I only had a few people who wants to shoot my XD, although admittedly there were several people with XD's. Maybe it wasn't exotic enough.

          5. Shoot Shop

          +1 on the water. Don't care about the rest, although I'm sure it would make some people happy.

          Melesse
          Last edited by Melesse; 08-08-2010, 01:23 PM. Reason: Clarity on numero dos.
          Secretary

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

            Originally posted by Melesse View Post
            1. More direct control over the firing line positions.

            I assume that spray painting the ground is a huge no no. Is there biodegradable paint we can use? Stakes and twine would mean an advance element going out earlier. A shitload of rope? More organization is going to mean more more overhead, though I agree. Hot brass showers were common this time.
            There is something called "Landscape Chalk Spray" which will do what you want. It's only available in white but definitely has the temporary quality desired. Could do something like a double line for the fire line, single for safe. If you want color, then this is your stuff but it says "Withstands general weathering." which to me means that it will stick around longer (though not forever). This way though, you could have a Red fire line and a Blue safe line or something like that.

            Deviant: I hear you on the reservation issues. You definitely don't want to accept inferior ammo. Maybe people could be encouraged to pay with ammo that they would use, this way if it is denied (which would be less likely) they can still use it themselves in their own firearm. People could commit to a reservation on the forum and if they don't follow through, their spot could be used by the first person to bring appropriate payment.
            Coffee is a lost art, best not left to Starbucks.
            I brew the beer I drink.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

              Thanks again Deviant for putting this thing on.

              My thoughts:

              1 - 4: On marking lines, flour is a nice biodegradable marker, I've used that at motorsport events.

              5. Shoot shop: rock on, great idea. You put a lot of time in to this, I for one wouldn't have a problem if you cleared a couple of bucks to help keep it happening. Don't shy away from good quality reloads; all of the standard velocity stuff I shot this year was leftovers from reloads I got at the annual subgun match I shoot in, if it's good enough for people with big $$$ papered Uzis, Sterlings, and MP5s, it should be good enough for most of us schmucks with semis. I can get you info on the source if interested.

              6. I'll gladly donate anything I have that may help.

              7. Sounds like a lot of work for not too much in return.

              8. I think the shoot should be advertised as "pre registered only"....even if it's a bit hard to enforce.

              9. Gemtech is really good about showing up at shoots. Great guys, great products.
              TSA luvs my Uzi.

              "We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Thank yous, and thoughts about next year

                Originally posted by FirmWarez View Post
                9. Gemtech is really good about showing up at shoots. Great guys, great products.
                We've actually had Kel and Doc come to a shoot before. Back when it was under CHS' management. Ended up being able to field a few full autos because of it. They even got a local dealer to come out (owner of Machine Gun Kelly's Gun Vault) and bring some NFA toys.

                I wouldnt mind seeing if we can make that happen again..

                I return whatever i wish . Its called FREEDOWM OF RANDOMNESS IN A HECK . CLUSTERED DEFEATED CORn FORUM . Welcome to me

                Comment

                Working...
                X