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  • Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

    Many of you know that I'm very vocal about my concerns about the Press at defcon. My concern is that one day the press (I'm looking at you *NBC) will sucker some poor attendee into admitting a crime (real or made up) which will bring negative attention on all of us. I personally have ZERO benefit to being on the news, so why risk ruining my (or your) career?

    The Defcon 20 press page is up: https://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-20/dc-20-press.html

    DEF CON tries to say that "the same rules apply to humans and press" but I think that's a bad policy. The press isn't there to share photos with their friends or to brag that they're at a "hacker con", they're there to get dirt. They get paid to find controversial stories. They get paid to find dirt on people, because that increases their profits. They don't give a shit about our community, they're a business and they want to sell ads. They'll ruin your life for a dollar.

    What we need is for *YOU*, the attendees, to take the initiative. We need YOU to out these reporters. We need YOU to be aware of the rules and to bust them when they break them. DEF CON has written down the press rules, but it's up to all of us to make sure they're followed. Find a security goon and we'll help you, the attendee, stand up for your rights.

    From the DEF CON Press Page:
    - "Photography/video without explicit permission is forbidden." - you can bust anyone taking photos without your permission.
    - ""Crowd Shots" are disallowed" - don't let them take photos of you in line, in a talk, etc.
    - "If you are asked by an attendee to delete a picture they did not give you permission to take, do so immediately." - if they refuse, find a security goon.
    - "don't even *think* of having a hidden camera" - if you find someone doing this PLEASE find a security goon, we'll set up a sting.

    ** These, of course, are just my personal opinions and I'll probably get in trouble for them. **

    Kallahar
    --- The fuck? Have you ever BEEN to Defcon?

  • #2
    Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

    Originally posted by kallahar View Post
    ** These, of course, are just my personal opinions and I'll probably get in trouble for them. **
    Kallahar
    kallahar,

    In our Def Con community, if nowhere else, even people who disagree with your thoughts should fight to the end to allow you to say what you feel, "without you getting in trouble"

    Whether I agree with you or not you can always count on me to have your back and defend your right to talk!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

      Originally posted by kallahar View Post
      ** These, of course, are just my personal opinions and I'll probably get in trouble for them. **
      I don't see anything wrong with that content on the forums. You won't get any trouble for me for your commentary on how to handle press and photography at Defcon.

      You and others likely know how strongly I feel about censorship of content on the forums. The only 2 places I'll do it without user permission are for spam, and sometimes when people admit to or discuss committing or having had committed illegal actions. (Both are stated in the rules as 2 cases where mods reserve rights to alter or remove content.)

      Good luck, man. :-)

      [I've also removed content for people under certain circumstances when they, as the poster and creator of content ask to have it removed, but not when other people have replied to it and quoted it, as editing their posts to remove their quote would be altering content in their post, or when deletion ruins continuity of thread discussion. Removing a poster's own content by their request isn't true censorship, though.]

      PSA for anyone, from me: If you ask me to remove or alter someone else's content, you are a [pre-shrunk, flaccid] dick.
      Last edited by TheCotMan; 04-27-2012, 03:18 PM.
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      • #4
        Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

        Originally posted by kallahar View Post
        ** These, of course, are just my personal opinions and I'll probably get in trouble for them. **

        Kallahar
        Perhaps I can help by offering my apology for any part I may have had in making you feel that way, I also extend that to any other situation which may have lead you to conclude that your opinion is not welcome.

        Not just to you, but to anyone: If someone in particular makes you feel that way, I strongly advise you to report it to your team lead, no one should feel that their opinion is unwelcome or that they will be bullied for it.

        I think that some clarification needs to be had before a concrete answer regarding our photo rules is posted, so I appreciate you bringing it up. The last thing we want is for us all to not be on the same page.

        That's my opinion. :-)

        Also, I've been to a lot of DEF CONs..... 7, in fact.
        "Haters, gonna hate"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

          Originally posted by Nikita View Post



          Also, I've been to a lot of DEF CONs..... 7, in fact.
          I've been to 13 of them. Is there a prize I am missing out on? I like money.
          "They-Who-Were-Google are no longer alone. Now we are all Google."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

            Originally posted by eris View Post
            I've been to 13 of them. Is there a prize I am missing out on? I like money.
            Nah, Kallahar's Signature is: --- The fuck? Have you ever BEEN to Defcon?

            I was just answering, cause I wanted to sound "cool".
            "Haters, gonna hate"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

              I was wondering if there were any extra benefits that come with press access? I'm not looking for a free pass as press, I am more interested in things like set up space for interviews so that I don't interfere with the other convention goers.

              I host show on Science Fiction technology's influence on real world technology and the social effects of that influence. I am hoping to conduct a follow up interview with Joe Kawasaki & Sidney Sherman after the premier of REBOOT. I'm a different animal as far as press goes - I'm interested in covering the mode media friendly aspects of the convention.

              This will be my first time at Def Con, so any tips would be greatly appreciated. My fiance and I have been talking about going for a while now and have decided to make the trip this year, I'm really excited for it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

                Originally posted by Cy-Fi View Post
                I was wondering if there were any extra benefits that come with press access? I'm not looking for a free pass as press, I am more interested in things like set up space for interviews so that I don't interfere with the other convention goers.
                (Emphasis is mine to highlight 'free pass as press')

                See FAQ:
                DC20FAQ
                Originally posted by DC20FAQ
                I'm press, how do I sign up, why can't I get in for free (I'm just doing my job)?

                Please email press[at]defcon[dot]org if you wish press credentials. Lots of people come to DEF CON and are doing their job; security professionals, federal agents, and the press. It wouldn't be fair to DEF CON attendees if we exempted one group from paying. If you are a major network and plan on doing a two minute piece showing all the people with blue hair, you probably shouldn't bother applying for a press pass - you won't get one. If you are a security writer or from a real publication please submit, and someone will respond with an answer.
                Summary: Press passes are not free.

                Originally posted by Cy-Fi View Post
                I host show on Science Fiction technology's influence on real world technology and the social effects of that influence. I am hoping to conduct a follow up interview with Joe Kawasaki & Sidney Sherman after the premier of REBOOT. I'm a different animal as far as press goes - I'm interested in covering the mode media friendly aspects of the convention.
                They are reachable on twitter, and through their site. I'd bet they would be happy to be part of an interview, but you probably want to at least make some plans with them before Defcon.

                Originally posted by Cy-Fi View Post
                This will be my first time at Def Con, so any tips would be greatly appreciated. My fiance and I have been talking about going for a while now and have decided to make the trip this year, I'm really excited for it.
                The Defcon FAQ are useful, as is the Unofficial Defcon Faq assembled by HighWiz:
                * General Defcon FAQ
                * Defcon 20 FAQ
                * Unofficial FAQ

                Also, consider attending the Thursday "Defcon 101" presentation:
                * Defcon 101 / DC101 (forum)
                * site
                * twitter
                Last edited by TheCotMan; 04-30-2012, 10:31 AM.
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                • #9
                  Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

                  Originally posted by Cy-Fi View Post
                  I was wondering if there were any extra benefits that come with press access?
                  Cy-FI

                  There may be more Dis-advantages than advantages. Your Defcon Experience may be very different if you are seen as a member of the press as oposed to just another community enthusiast.

                  In my experience the people at Defcon are great and willing to talk openly and share thoughts with other attendees,(if you do the same) however that is because we are talking amongst our own, Many of us are not as willing to talk as freely with someone who is there for a story or article.

                  Just my 2 cents anyway.

                  PS . Another opportunity to meet people is the Defcon Forum Meet. It will be Friday night, keep your eyes open for more info!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

                    Bbox: Thank you. I will keep my eyes open for Forum Meet info, see you there.
                    We are traveling up a couple of days early, know of any precon fun?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

                      TheCotMan.

                      Thank you for answering my question, however I was not inquiring about getting a free pass. I was more concerned about the benefits vs drawbacks of listing oneself as press. Do you have any thoughts on the pros/cons of being listed as press?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

                        Originally posted by Cy-Fi View Post
                        TheCotMan.

                        Thank you for answering my question, however I was not inquiring about getting a free pass. I was more concerned about the benefits vs drawbacks of listing oneself as press. Do you have any thoughts on the pros/cons of being listed as press?
                        If you are a member of the press and try to pass yourself off as a human, especially with the whole "hidden camera" thing, in order to interview people, that could end badly.

                        Many people that are Press get a Human and a Press badge, then only wear the Press badge when working as press.

                        A shrinking minority of people at Defcon have a negative view of Press, which is based on historical events. Some people were treated poorly by the press. Some people have seen hatchet jobs done by members of the media. Some people see how the some members of the media have treated their peers. Some enjoy privacy, and press would broadcast what humans consider private moments. Everyone has their own reasons, but a smaller and smaller number of people are against the press every year.

                        Defcon also attracts people that want to be in the spotlight, even if they have no skills. Some of these people may be attracted to the press badge.

                        People will treat you differently with a Press badge, but if you are press and go "under cover" and people find out about it, it is likely your experience will be less than ideal.
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                        • #13
                          Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

                          Originally posted by Cy-Fi View Post
                          TheCotMan.

                          Thank you for answering my question, however I was not inquiring about getting a free pass. I was more concerned about the benefits vs drawbacks of listing oneself as press. Do you have any thoughts on the pros/cons of being listed as press?
                          Press does have a few benefits. First off, to answer your question there will be a press room, so if you'd like to interview a speaker or the people associated with one of the movies ( Like REBOOT) you will have a room you can go where you can relax , have a seat and interview them in a more professional manner. This is especially suggested if you plan to video tape :-) Also, the press room has certain conveniences like tables, chairs, power access and wired internet access.

                          Furthermore, we will be updating the FAQ shortly, but Press will need to Apply for Press credentials in order to get a press badge which would include free admission. Although it is still suggested that press buy a human badge as well.

                          Nico and Dead Addict run press and they are very helpful and have many many years of hard work and experience behind them, I'm sure that they will be able to help you figure things out and help you get set up. I'd contact them and ask where you stand and if you qualify.

                          As for Press being treated differently....I don't know.. to be honest, I don't think half the time people pay attention to your badge color and a lot of the new folk can't tell the difference in categories anyway but may be like Oh your badge is different what's that for? I've seen people do stupid crap right in front of me and I'm wearing a goon badge ( Even with my red shirt on too ) so as much as people would like to pretend they are aware of their surroundings and who is listening/watching...at DEF CON they aren't. I would try not to take advantage of that though or you will make enemies fast, haha. :-) However if you act like yourself, remain friendly and ask if you can use the conversation as material, etc, I doubt people will give you the shaft in a rude way, but you may encounter many people on guard with how their words may be taken out of context to promote Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt in the minds of the general public, especially in regards to how they see our community. We, well...at least MOST of us, are generally very tolerant, fun loving, curious and accepting people. Most people at Defcon I've met and talked to are pretty reasonable, but they can still be a bit standoffish because the environment makes people on guard of their personal space, integrity, and their egos. I think of hackers as people who are creative, ingenious, and use non linear thinking to explore a problem or situation. Most uneducated Americans think hackers break into your computer and turn your life into a real life version of "the net" and that's so far from the truth it hurts.

                          If I was a reporter, obviously I would fact check and ask for credentials/proof, but also I would think anything seen or heard off the record is hearsay and you should just leave it off the books. Also, I would say that reporting what happens in public exhibition ( Contests, theatre, displays of showmanship, making a spectacle ) is fair game and so is photography of it, but that's my very unpopular opinion.
                          "Haters, gonna hate"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

                            Originally posted by Nikita View Post
                            Nah, Kallahar's Signature is: --- The fuck? Have you ever BEEN to Defcon?

                            I was just answering, cause I wanted to sound "cool".
                            Oh hey, now I sound cool too! Man, that's a first for me. I'm moving up in the world.

                            On subject, if someone takes a photo of me without asking, I ask them politely to delete it off their device. If they say no, I ask a Red Shirt goon to ask them politely. However, I am also aware of "expectation of privacy" in public places as well. However, if the person taking the photo is wearing an official Press Badge, I go straight for a Red Shirt and skip the asking politely myself part. Accepting a Press Badge means accepting the rules of the Press Badge and any deviation is cause, for me, for immediate reporting.
                            "They-Who-Were-Google are no longer alone. Now we are all Google."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Human/Press interactions for DEF CON 20

                              Having a press badge runs hot and cold. I have been asked to delete pics or not publish pics and I'm fine with that. I can also shoot pics for you or your buddies only, email them to you, and then delete them. For every shot I have been asked to delete I have been thanks for a hundred. Any press dude who is not willing to delete an image is either a jerk or only showed up with a 12 exposure roll of film.

                              Some people see a press badge and will not let you into parties, of if they let you in you find yourself "working" rather than having fun. A press badge does not turn into a Human badge at midnight. Even at 3am press rules apply no matter how much you want to be a human.

                              The best thing the press badge does is let me into a full talk to get a few pictures and then I leave. I don't walk around like I own the place (please shoot me if I ever do) and I respect the others who have paid dearly in time and money to be at Defcon.

                              Comment

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