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  • RFID in H&K handguns

    Knowing how many firearms owners there are here, I'm suprised no one has brought this up yet.

    Anyway, it appears Heckler & Koch is imbedding RFIDs in their handguns.
    It's unknown when they started doing this, but it's being assumed it started about one to three years ago for military/government/law enforcement end user handguns.
    A few law enforcement packaged handguns were sold to civilians in the USA early this year and that's when non-government people started to notice them.

    So far, the RFID or RFID cutout has been found in the following Heckler & Koch handgun models: USP Compact, P-2000, P-30, HK-45 and HK-45C.

    The Heckler & Koch HK-45 manual is reported to have a section which reads "Transponder (Optional)- Internal (molded-in) electronic data storage device. Permits permanent and changeable data storage on pistol by operator, armorer."

    So far, reactions from the firearms community ranges from "B.S. it's not real" to "relax, it's for inventory control" to "break out the tinfoil hats, the black helocopters are coming".

    Interesting ain't it, makes me go "hmmmmm... what can i do with this."

    H&K P-2000 RFID


    H&K USP Compact RFID


    H&K HK-45C RFID slot
    Last edited by Quiet; April 12, 2008, 01:15.
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

  • #2
    Re: RFID in H&K handguns

    Owned a 93 nice gun. What's really interesting is the amount of shock that device must take every time it's fired. That's a lot of g's and newtons.

    xor
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: RFID in H&K handguns

      HK's are my favorite. A P7-M8 is my daily carry, and there are several other HK long guns in my collection.

      As to the RFID chip, based on my knowledge of them, I'd be inclined to think it's little more than a serial number.
      Thorn
      "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: RFID in H&K handguns

        I've just learned that if you have a "Speedpass Key" from Exxon, it's RFID. If you have a Toll Way tag that attaches to the inside of your car, it's RFID, and can be read over 300 feet away at 100mph. Various CCs have RFID chips in them. All US Passports now have RFID. With the Real ID act passed, soon all US Driver's licenses will have RFID. This does not take into account your clothing, all your purchases, etc.

        Yes, it's a passive device, but the readers are what have variable distances. Some readers can read under 5 foot. Some readers can read at nearly half a mile. This is the problem..

        This is not as benign as a simple UPC bar code, but rather, this is data mining at its source. The DOD has had a plan for the last 7 years to collect information on all people within US territories which means tracking your movements through RFID.

        The chances are high that there are working RIFD chips in current manufactured pistols especially polymer guns, and it would be a simple thing to scan a home to find RFID'd weapons or ammo.

        I'm not sure about how to actually disable RFID chips. I'm sure if you had a chip laying there you could "zap" it (they are about the size of a grain of sand, itself.. but have an antenna and power supply on a larger silicon die).

        I do know that you can shield it to prevent it being read, with a simple Faraday cage.

        The only way to be sure is to buy a RFID scanner and try to read everything on it, but the problem with that is that there could be variable frequencies and your reader will not read those RFID's out of its range.

        I have read the H&K gun RFID's are optional at the moment.

        RFID is a great technology, but, it's really being exploited in the wrong way.
        Last edited by Greyhatter; April 12, 2008, 14:37.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: RFID in H&K handguns

          Originally posted by Greyhatter View Post
          I've just learned that if you have a "Speedpass Key" from Exxon, it's RFID. If you have a Toll Way tag that attaches to the inside of your car, it's RFID, and can be read over 300 feet away at 100mph. Various CCs have RFID chips in them. All US Passports now have RFID. With the Real ID act passed, soon all US Driver's licenses will have RFID. This does not take into account your clothing, all your purchases, etc.

          Yes, it's a passive device, but the readers are what have variable distances. Some readers can read under 5 foot. Some readers can read at nearly half a mile. This is the problem..

          This is not as benign as a simple UPC bar code, but rather, this is data mining at its source. The DOD has had a plan for the last 7 years to collect information on all people within US territories which means tracking your movements through RFID.

          The chances are high that there are working RIFD chips in current manufactured pistols especially polymer guns, and it would be a simple thing to scan a home to find RFID'd weapons or ammo.

          I'm not sure about how to actually disable RFID chips. I'm sure if you had a chip laying there you could "zap" it (they are about the size of a grain of sand, itself.. but have an antenna and power supply on a larger silicon die).

          I do know that you can shield it to prevent it being read, with a simple Faraday cage.

          The only way to be sure is to buy a RFID scanner and try to read everything on it, but the problem with that is that there could be variable frequencies and your reader will not read those RFID's out of its range.

          I have read the H&K gun RFID's are optional at the moment.

          RFID is a great technology, but, it's really being exploited in the wrong way.
          Sorry Greyhatter, but you're spreading some major FUD here. Most of the supposed "evil uses" of RFID whether by a government or a major corporation is nothing more than pure, unmitigated, 100% bullshit, for the simple reason that the described "use" is physically impossible. Usually it is spread by people who don't know what RFID is, how it works.

          Some RFID devices like the EZPass can be read from extended distances. They are specifically designed to do that. Other RFID devices, such as the Mobil/Exxon SpeedPass cannot be read from more than several feet under any circumstances. It all has to do with the frequency, and radio physics, and whether it is an "active" or "passive" device. Active devices contain a battery that powers the transceiver while passive devices obtain all their power via coupling in the RF Near Field.

          There is also a trade-off in size. The devices that can be triggered and read are those which are larger, such as the EZPass. The smaller the device, smaller the distance can be read. Devices that are down to the "grain of rice" size, can usually only be read from less than two feet or so.

          BLATANT PLUG: Renderman and I wrote RFID Security, which explains a lot of this stuff in detail.
          Thorn
          "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: RFID in H&K handguns

            Originally posted by Greyhatter View Post
            The DOD has had a plan for the last 7 years to collect information on all people within US territories which means tracking your movements through RFID.
            Please. Do you think the government has nothing better to do than to track your every movement? Can you imagine the amount of resources this would take? I just have to call BS on this one. While someone might have floated an idea to do something like this, I have a very difficult time believing there is a detailed plan of action in place to do anything resembling what you're suggesting.
            "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: RFID in H&K handguns

              Finally got a hold of a H&K HK-45 manual.
              On page 17...

              TRANSPONDER (OPTIONAL) -Internal (molded-in) electronic data storage device.
              Permits permanent and changeable data (serial number, rack number, user name,
              round count, etc.) storage on pistol by operator, armorer.
              “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: RFID in H&K handguns

                If you filed a tax return this year the government is already tracking you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: RFID in H&K handguns

                  Originally posted by Greyhatter View Post
                  If you filed a tax return this year the government is already tracking you.
                  Well, you've made a tremendous leap.There is a huge difference between having your name on a tax return, and tracking your physical movements via RFID.

                  In fact, only 2-3% of all tax returns are audited; in most other cases the government is trusting you to be honest. In all likelihood, the chances of someone actually seeing your tax return, much less doing anything about it or "tracking you" is remote.
                  "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: RFID in H&K handguns

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: RFID in H&K handguns

                      Originally posted by theprez98 View Post
                      Please. Do you think the government has nothing better to do than to track your every movement? Can you imagine the amount of resources this would take? I just have to call BS on this one. While someone might have floated an idea to do something like this, I have a very difficult time believing there is a detailed plan of action in place to do anything resembling what you're suggesting.
                      The government may not be doing it, but the Aliens most certainly are. They have unlimited storage resources, completely control over gravity and conduct regular anal probes of people living in trailer parks.
                      A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: RFID in H&K handguns

                        Originally posted by theprez98 View Post
                        Please. Do you think the government has nothing better to do than to track your every movement? Can you imagine the amount of resources this would take? I just have to call BS on this one. While someone might have floated an idea to do something like this, I have a very difficult time believing there is a detailed plan of action in place to do anything resembling what you're suggesting.
                        Ok, so my intell came from an ex Lockheed x33 project worker who claimed he was implanted with RFID and was required to also wear RFID badges 10 years ago that would open and close top security doors upon entrance and egress while being tracked throughout the project building. I guess he was either telling me a whopper or the public is very in the dark about many things. Please don't kill the messenger. I think we all know there are things going on at higher levels the masses are not privy to.
                        Last edited by Greyhatter; April 12, 2008, 21:27.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: RFID in H&K handguns

                          Originally posted by Thorn View Post
                          HK's are my favorite. A P7-M8 is my daily carry, and there are several other HK long guns in my collection.

                          As to the RFID chip, based on my knowledge of them, I'd be inclined to think it's little more than a serial number.
                          I like 45's myself, Springfield or Colt. You know what a really nice gun is a Luger 08 despite its association to the Nazi's. The gun was originally patented in 1898 long before the Nazi's took power. It just feels good in your hand, there's European ergonomics for ya.

                          Good wiki article on it if you do a search.

                          xor
                          Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: RFID in H&K handguns

                            Originally posted by barry99705 View Post
                            That's the same hat I use to keep Apple Mac Rays from penetrating my thoughts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: RFID in H&K handguns

                              Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
                              The government may not be doing it, but the Aliens most certainly are. They have unlimited storage resources, completely control over gravity and conduct regular anal probes of people living in trailer parks.
                              I have an Amish friend in Ohio who claims to have been abducted in 1998. You two should get together.

                              Comment

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