Key Bumping is for Hacks

[valkyrie]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

"Jees Scotty, you got me sharks with frickin laser beams!"

Ahem

Have to agree with Valkyrie, no point in pumping hundreds of dollars/pounds/euro/etc into a kick ass, close to unbreakable lock, if the intruder can simply put a brick through your window and hop in.

Unless of course we're discussing commercial examples like restricted access areas of a company building etc.

But for home security, you definitely have to look at alot more than the lock on your front door.

Well, then, that would be closer to a physical implementation of "zones of control" hopefully used in reasonable networking environments. I loved Streakers comment:

Which is exactly why I have my house surrounded by sharks, sharks with lasers on their heads.

I would love to see all of these fun devices in action just because I am a geek and I like fun toys. Show me how to hack them, yes. Also show or tell me how to deploy them in the proper environment properly. Perhaps that is what I really meant to say. I meant no detraction from my awesomely skilled lock hacking/picking/deploying friends.

Regards

valkyrie
__________________________________________________ ____________________
sapere aude

[artoir]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

"Jees Scotty, you got me sharks with frickin laser beams!"

Ahem

Have to agree with Valkyrie, no point in pumping hundreds of dollars/pounds/euro/etc into a kick ass, close to unbreakable lock, if the intruder can simply put a brick through your window and hop in.

Unless of course we're discussing commercial examples like restricted access areas of a company building etc.

But for home security, you definitely have to look at alot more than the lock on your front door.

[streaker69]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Like lasers.... :-)

regards,

valkyrie
__________________________________________________ ________________
sapere aude

Which is exactly why I have my house surrounded by sharks, sharks with lasers on their heads.

[valkyrie]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Why not just skip keys altogether?

The latest fad in hardware security seems to be entry locks that use keypads powered by batteries for the user to type in their passcode. Trilogy, Alarm Lock and Codelocks are making these, but I haven't seen any reference to them on the defcon site. Since I didn't get to Vegas for the latest lock picking marathon, I'm wondering if defeating these locks that use piezo technology were in any of the contests and if anybody succeeded in opening them. (I did come across somebody on the net who claims that the "Ring of the Devil" device opens some (all?) piezo locks. If these brands and types haven't been in a defcon contest yet, how having a go at them next year?

Good idea about having them in a contest next year. May a posit an issue?

keypads are single auth. Do you see an issue here? I would much prefer a sturdier key lock (such as DO suggested in the interview he did in 2007 or was it 2006) with a twist to it. Require a bio or key code. Someone steals all the stuff I am carrying, including my keys, they still can't get in my house, even if they require me to give up my ATM code which could empty my bank account. I suppose my point being? First, this is by no way my area of expertise. But, I posit you can throw more tech at keeping things locked up, but if someone can break a window that's not alarmed and get in that way, why go to all the effort? I think we need some more outside of the box thinking here...

Like lasers.... :-)

regards,

valkyrie
__________________________________________________ ________________
sapere aude

[incomepadabull]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Why not just skip keys altogether?

The latest fad in hardware security seems to be entry locks that use keypads powered by batteries for the user to type in their passcode. Trilogy, Alarm Lock and Codelocks are making these, but I haven't seen any reference to them on the defcon site. Since I didn't get to Vegas for the latest lock picking marathon, I'm wondering if defeating these locks that use piezo technology were in any of the contests and if anybody succeeded in opening them. (I did come across somebody on the net who claims that the "Ring of the Devil" device opens some (all?) piezo locks. If these brands and types haven't been in a defcon contest yet, how having a go at them next year?

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Should I make a little spring-cover for my Key? ... Product Idea anyone?

as most of us TOOOL folk will tell you in our lectures and workshops, if you're worried about copies of your keys, just invest in a higher-security lock.

Abloy's Protec series is not only "unpickable" in the conventional sense, but keys cannot be illicitly duplicated by any means other than making a cast impression (which requires physical possession of the key for a while, and the result is still iffy sometimes)

Keys by the Austrian manufacturer Evva (especially their MCS, magnetic code system lock) cannot be made by anyone who lacks their factory equipment. Yeah, if you're uber-paranoid about key copies, the MCS is the bomb-shizzle with your name on it in neon letters.

[streaker69]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Perfect solution. Up north most houses have these things called "arctic entries". It's basically an enclosed unheated(usually) front porch. It's like an airlock for heated inside air. Most people don't lock the door on them, and lock the entry door inside them. Unless someone mounts a camera inside, they aren't getting a photo of your keys.

My plan is to just configure all my doors the way they opened in Airplane II on the moonbase. You walk up to them and go 'shhhh".

[barry99705]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Perfect solution. Up north most houses have these things called "arctic entries". It's basically an enclosed unheated(usually) front porch. It's like an airlock for heated inside air. Most people don't lock the door on them, and lock the entry door inside them. Unless someone mounts a camera inside, they aren't getting a photo of your keys.

[YenTheFirst]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

By Jove, you're right! I'm gonna write my congressman immediately to have all cameras banned.

Funny. Let's also outlaw matlab, computers, and key-cutters. And eyesight.

The point is that, for a tinfoil hat paranoid, the first suggested solution:

Should I make a little spring-cover for my Key? One that will cover it up until the point that it goes into the keyhole?

Is in some ways superior to the second one:

Wouldn't it be easier just to keep your keys in your pocket until they go into the keyhole?

and the third one

If you're really paranoid you could always get a lock shield like they use around security doors with digital combination locks so people can't see what you're entering.

neither address the core issue that the first suggestion did. (preventing photography of keys)

[streaker69]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

it would be easier, but there would be a window, between taking it out of the pocket , and putting it into the lock, that photography would be possible.

By Jove, you're right! I'm gonna write my congressman immediately to have all cameras banned.

[YenTheFirst]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

it would be easier, but there would be a window, between taking it out of the pocket , and putting it into the lock, that photography would be possible.

Wouldn't it be easier just to keep your keys in your pocket until they go into the keyhole?

If you're really paranoid you could always get a lock shield like they use around security doors with digital combination locks so people can't see what you're entering.

[streaker69]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Should I make a little spring-cover for my Key? One that will cover it up until the point that it goes into the keyhole?

Or is that just a little too paranoid?

Product Idea anyone?

Wouldn't it be easier just to keep your keys in your pocket until they go into the keyhole?

If you're really paranoid you could always get a lock shield like they use around security doors with digital combination locks so people can't see what you're entering.

[IamReck]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Should I make a little spring-cover for my Key? One that will cover it up until the point that it goes into the keyhole?

Or is that just a little too paranoid?

Product Idea anyone?

[streaker69]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

Step 4: Profit!

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Key Bumping is for Hacks

This combined with a small desktop cnc mill to automagically spit out a key would be cool to see.

step one... use an Easy Entrie machine to mill a blank key that fits the lock's keyway profile...

step two... use an HPC Blue Shark code cutting machine to bit that blank key into a properly cut key for the lock you're attacking...

step three... automagical unlockery goodness