Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

    [introduction]
    What attributes are necessary to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

    Can you narrow it down to just one? Do you agree with other people's suggestions? Why or why not?

    If you've been around here long enough, you know what I am talking about. If not, then here is the definition I am using for hacking:

    oldPost:
    Originally posted by oldPost
    Hacker: Someone that knows something1 so well, that they can bend that thing to do something-else2 (of value3 and innovative4) that the original something1 was not originally designed to do.

    Hack: Evidence as a product of a hacker that demonstrates the definition, "hacker."

    Hacking: The active demonstration of a hack.

    something1: Skill, tool, system, etc.
    something-else2: New Solution, new purpose, new result
    value3: "Value" to someone. Proof-of-concept is of value. Education is of value. Somethign that can be sold (product or skill or work) is of value.
    innovative4: not previously demonstrated, known to have been demonstrated, or demonstrated by someone else.
    Is it possible to predict who will become a hacker, and who will not?
    How early in their development could you accurately predict a person's potential to be a hacker?

    Some example attributes:
    Curiosity? Ambition? Dedication? Intelligence? Wisdom? Thirst for knowledge? Indifference to other people's opinions about themselves? Something else?

    [Query]
    What attributes are necessary to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

    Can you narrow it down to just one? Do you agree with other people's suggestions? Why or why not?

    [My thoughts]
    If I had the limit this to one attribute, and only one attribute, I think curiosity would be the most important of all attributes that any person might need to become a hacker in any field. Without curiosity, excess strength in any other attribute don't really matter.

    What are your thoughts? Is there just one attribute or are many required? How would you rank the various attributes in importance? Can you find ways to test applicants for a job to see if is is possible for a candidate to become a hacker? What would they be?

    [Your thoughts]

  • #2
    Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

    If there was one single word that could couple the notion of "curiosity" with a willingness/ability/yearning to break convention or think/work outside of normal constraints... then that would be my one word to describe what you're asking.

    The two are very related notions. How to determine if someone has those qualities, and at what age, is a bit of a hard to define task. I think it's the sort of thing that might be approached with that Supreme Court definition of porn... you know it when you see it.

    I do agree with Cot that curiosity is perhaps the most key element, however, since it relates to not just unconventional thinking and rejection of the status quo (being curious as to why another approach is not tried or another view is considered wrong) but also because it relates so much to the value of being self-taught. Figuring things out for oneself (or at least attempting to before you ask others for help) is also critical to the whole "hacker" notion, in my opinion.
    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
    - Trent Reznor

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

      It is more than curiosity. Simply being curious makes you a cat or a scientist.

      First of all hackers aren't curious. They *have* to know. (That statement will resonate with those who understand it...)

      Then there is the question of what then? So it's been taken apart. You have the guts in between your fingers. What then? That is the point where many stop. Not a hacker.

      I'll post more on this later.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

        I think curiosity and thirst for knowledge together would be how I describe a hacker. They go hand in hand, just curiosity does nothing, I can be curious about something, but without a unquenchable thirst I won't be going to look for an answer.

        It is my thirst for knowledge combined with my curiosity as to how and why things work that I do what I do, that I go search for answers, that I take things apart, that I play with code/computers.

        I agree with LostboY, there is a *have* to know. Hackers REQUIRE an answer, they can't move on UNLESS they get said answer.

        As for how to judge someone if they are a hacker and what age? I don't think you can just tell based on a single attribute, I think it is an overall judge of character, judging how they behave around new situations/new ideas and seeing how they de-construct and re-construct the various objects until they have an answer that satisfies them. Are they happy when the thing turns on and works, or are they happy when they have figured out WHY it turns on and works.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

          I agree with what people are saying in so much as a hacker has an overwhelming need to understand how things work that goes far beyond curiousity.

          A hacker is also someone who sees the world with different eyes than most people. Its someone who sees the weak points in something (be it a device, piece of code, or simply an argument) and wonders how to poke a hole in that weak spot.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

            The drive to know "Why and how!" along with thinking beyond normal functionality! Instead of what it can do now what could it do IF? I would also say it it is "Curiosity" mixed with "Desire To Know"!

            Focus on ones interaction with different tasks and technology threw the day. In my opinion that would be the most likely way to even have a hint at the persons potential to be a "Hacker"!

            -xAlimorAx
            -xAlimorAx

            "Of All The Things I've Lost, I Miss My Mind The Most!"
            "All your base are belong to me!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

              This kind of goes off topic but from a new comers perspective I would say patience. I got into info sec last March and attended my first Con. I remember wanting to "run before I can walk". I wanted to know anything and everything in the shortest amount of time possible. Takes lot's of patience especially in this field knowing its going to take lots of time and discipline before you will get to where you want to be.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

                I wonder how many of us have had our 'hacker views' shaped by our fathers or grandfathers, and possibly didn't realize it.

                I would consider both of my grandfathers hackers to a point. They both took took stuff and made other stuff out of it using the tools at hand. Either they couldn't afford or the item wasn't made, so they made it themselves.

                I learned early on to question how things were built and what makes them work, and then see what I could do to make them different.

                Hacking doesn't have to always apply to computers of course.
                A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

                  Hacker qualities; hmmm;

                  Devilishly handsome, extremely popular, great in sports, social, articulate, ...........

                  Just kidding.

                  Man you guys are lame.

                  Did you take stuff a part when you were a little kid? Did you put in back together and still have it work? Did you blow your eye brows off with a chemistry set? Never satisfied with answer of because to the question of why? Risk life and limb to see through the vale? Questioned the existence of Santa Clause from day one? You accept nothing at face value? Did you test the laws of both man and god(if you believe)? If so you are a natural born hacker (NBH) .

                  I would say that's the first indicator if you are a parent.

                  xor
                  Last edited by xor; January 23, 2009, 19:13.
                  Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

                    Originally posted by xor View Post
                    Hacker qualities; hmmm;

                    Devilishly handsome, extremely popular, great in sports, social, articulate, ...........

                    Just kidding.

                    Man you guys are lame.

                    Did you take stuff a part when you were a little kid? Did you put in back together and still have it work? Did you blow your eye brows off with a chemistry set? Never satisfied with answer of because to the question of why? Risk life and limb to see through the vale? Questioned the existence of Santa Clause from day one? Do you accept nothing at face value? If so you are a natural born hacker (NBH) .

                    I would say that's the first indicator if you are a parent.

                    xor
                    Passion. That encompasses curiosity and drive. I find it interesting that the idea of the influence of one's parental units may have something to do with it. I am grateful that I was doubly blessed with 'rents who were also curious creatures in their own way.

                    Could we add fearlessness as xor mentioned? Not afraid to make "mistakes?" I believe a wise man once said there were no mistakes, only experiments that didn't work. :-D

                    Great thread CotMan...

                    So, now I will muddy the waters. Are hackers "born", or can hackers be "made?" If I am hi-jacking the thread, put this particular post in /dev/random

                    Regards,

                    valkyrie
                    __________________________________________________ ______
                    sapere aude

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

                      Originally posted by valkyrie View Post

                      So, now I will muddy the waters. Are hackers "born", or can hackers be "made?" If I am hi-jacking the thread, put this particular post in /dev/random
                      Hacker's a built from spare parts by their hacker parental units.
                      A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

                        Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
                        Could we add fearlessness as xor mentioned? Not afraid to make "mistakes?"
                        People can add what they want. This is a thread about people's opinions about this topic.

                        Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
                        So, now I will muddy the waters. Are hackers "born", or can hackers be "made?"
                        This is why I was asking about this. If we decide upon the attributes that are required for hackers and these are components of us as we are born, and though while possible to encourage them if they exist in tiny amounts, we find they cannot be learned, then the answer to this question follows as the requirements for the premise lead us to the obvious conclusion.

                        A long chain of conditionals, but the first step in identifying the attribute or attributes required for someone to become a hacker is where we are now.

                        The next item in this was actually stated above, in the top post of the thread. Is it possible to determine who is most likely to become a hacker, and if so, how soon could you reliably estimate this? 5 years old? 13 years old?

                        And the final question (in another thread, when we finally get to it) would be:
                        At what moment does a person realize they are becoming a hacker? (Meaning, on the path, not necessarily the moment of arrival.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

                          Originally posted by TheCotMan View Post
                          People can add what they want. This is a thread about people's opinions about this topic.
                          Thank you. That is why you began this thread.


                          This is why I was asking about this. If we decide upon the attributes that are required for hackers and these are components of us as we are born, and though while possible to encourage them if they exist in tiny amounts, we find they cannot be learned, then the answer to this question follows as the requirements for the premise lead us to the obvious conclusion.
                          It is not up to me to decide what attributes are "required" of hackers. That is a subjective statement.

                          A long chain of conditionals, but the first step in identifying the attribute or attributes required for someone to become a hacker is where we are now.

                          The next item in this was actually stated above, in the top post of the thread. Is it possible to determine who is most likely to become a hacker, and if so, how soon could you reliably estimate this? 5 years old? 13 years old?
                          Why does anyone wish to be a prophet? Does never work for you? It sure works for me.

                          And the final question (in another thread, when we finally get to it) would be:
                          At what moment does a person realize they are becoming a hacker? (Meaning, on the path, not necessarily the moment of arrival.)
                          When they realize they are becoming a hacker? My particular epiphany was my particular epiphany. Others mileage may vary. You are rabble rousing again. And you do it so well. :-D

                          Regards,

                          valkyrie
                          __________________________________________________
                          sapere aude

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

                            Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
                            It is not up to me to decide what attributes are "required" of hackers. That is a subjective statement.
                            It is a collective, "we," as a group of individuals that decide these things on their own.
                            This wasn't intended to be a, "we," as a collective that come to agreement and ratify some sort of document that becomes a de facto law.

                            Why does anyone wish to be a prophet? Does never work for you? It sure works for me.
                            There is advantage to accurate prediction. Accurate predictions allow for planning and preparation. Really, if there was no prediction, and no planning, Defcon would be canceled -- for real!

                            When they realize they are becoming a hacker? My particular epiphany was my particular epiphany. Others mileage may vary.
                            Of course. Everyone's moment of self realization and recognition of their path as being what it is will be different. However, will there be any common items for everyone? Will there be classes of related events? Hopefully, we'll get to that point and see. :-)

                            You are rabble rousing again. And you do it so well. :-D
                            Naw. No rabble to rouse. However, I may provide a little babble ruse. There is only request for people's opinions to see how similar and different opinions might be. Perhaps people can draw some conclusions for further testing. That is something I will be doing.
                            Last edited by TheCotMan; January 23, 2009, 22:23.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What attributes are required to be eventually be labeled a hacker?

                              Well, all of the above and more. The yearning, wanting to go farther. Not accepting what's obvious and looking for a different way to accomplish something. Just because someone says "that's the way it's done/works" doesn't mean there's a different better way to do it. I'd say a lot of the qualities that make a good hacker also make a good engineer. The most elegant solution isn't always the "best".

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X