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New Identity [Previously: Fictious identity]

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  • New Identity [Previously: Fictious identity]

    I have heard that it is possible to apply for a new social security number from the government in USA, for example if the life is endagered. I wonder if there are anyone here on DC-Forum with knowledge about the system, especially the security and privacy protection related to this(question like: how/if the government manage to keep the person hidden,security routines, is there anyone who has been unveiled, what about biometric traces of the real identity etc.).I would be very grateful if someone could give me some links about the topic, since I have found it very difficult to find exact information about this.

    The reason for my interest is that I am writing my master in central and local government administration/computer science(a mixed subject) and my topic is "fictious identity". I am writing with a basis in Norway(my country), but will make part of the study comparative with other countries. Norway is not very open about this, and only a few have been offered this form for protection.That's the reason why I find it interesting to see how other countries handle this.

    My security perspective is that fictious identity is a strong form of a pseudonym,but still, it is a lot more than that since the pseudonym is complete and all parts of the life are changed totally. I think "normal" pseudo-security is not enough to describe a identity change.

    I hope to get some response about this, and in advance, thank you.

  • #2
    Re: Fictious identity

    Originally posted by elisabeth View Post
    I have heard that it is possible to apply for a new social security number from the government in USA, for example if the life is endagered.
    [snip]

    Where are you writing from? Ah, never mind. Norway (I re-read your post).

    Initially I was going to suggest that your spelling was way off, but I understand now why. Please note:

    fictitious not fictious

    There are others, but that one bothered me the most.

    Most of what you've posted suggests that you are getting your information from television. Try this first:

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=replacing+social+security+number

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Fictious identity

      lol @ shrdlu

      elisabeth, honestly any information on this (beyond what you can find via Google) is probably illegal to share, especially with someone from a country other than the US. Our government and your government both keep this kind of thing secretive for a reason.
      "Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users? " - Clifford Stoll

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fictious identity

        First of all, I am sorrry for my bad spelling. Second - I think you both misunderstand me.
        I am perfectly aware that no one will share the name of individuals who get permission to use fictious personal data, and that was absolutely not what I was asking for. I will try to express me more clear:

        Here in Norway, we got a new law in 2004 about the right to get a fictitious identity under certain conditions. Sweden has a similar law which has been active since 1991. I was curious about USA had such a law, and where eventually to find this on the net.
        Both our law and the swedish one describe the procedure with proceedings, technical implementation and so on. I saw "the american way" as an interesting aspect.

        My thoughts was also that people into computer security maybe also had some knowledge and interests in the complete form of pseudonym that a fictitious identity represent. I was interested in new perspectives which maybe could give me inspiration to se other sides of this question.

        I know how to use Google, and I have used Google, but to use Google to find specific information require a knowledge to the technical terms. I was not sure about the technical terms for this used in USA.

        Finally - such information is not illegal to share in Scandinavia, but of course not the detailed safety measures and so on. My knowledge do not come from Television. I don't even have one. So far I have been reading Norwegian and Swedish sources of law, beside security and pseudonyms, identity and identification, personal protection and legal protection.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fictious identity

          http://www.usmarshals.gov/witsec/index.html

          This book may also be of interest:
          WITSEC: Inside the Federal Witness Protection Program
          by Pete Earley and Gerald Shur. Bantam Books, Hardcover February 2002, ISBN 0-553-80145-7
          Paperback April 2003, ISBN 0-553-58243-7
          Thorn
          "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fictious identity

            Originally posted by Thorn View Post
            http://www.usmarshals.gov/witsec/index.html

            This book may also be of interest:
            WITSEC: Inside the Federal Witness Protection Program
            by Pete Earley and Gerald Shur. Bantam Books, Hardcover February 2002, ISBN 0-553-80145-7
            Paperback April 2003, ISBN 0-553-58243-7
            Thank you very much for a serious reply Thorn

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fictious identity

              Originally posted by elisabeth View Post
              Thank you very much for a serious reply Thorn
              You're welcome, and good luck. However, much more information will probably hard to come by.
              Thorn
              "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fictious identity

                Originally posted by Thorn View Post
                You're welcome, and good luck. However, much more information will probably hard to come by.
                Actually she could get a job working for the drug cartels, and then testify against them. Then she would have all the information she needs to do her paper.

                xor
                Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fictious identity

                  Originally posted by xor View Post
                  Actually she could get a job working for the drug cartels, and then testify against them. Then she would have all the information she needs to do her paper.

                  xor
                  A glorious idea but not even that would have given me fictious identity in Norway. The background for our law is domestic violence, so I think it's better to catch a psycho-man.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New Identity [Previously: Fictious identity]

                    So I understand this clearly; The risk of you and your family/friends being beheaded by druglords is secondary to the risk of being smacked around by a significant other?
                    "You have cubed asscheeks?"... "Do you not?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New Identity [Previously: Fictious identity]

                      Originally posted by sintax_error View Post
                      So I understand this clearly; The risk of you and your family/friends being beheaded by druglords is secondary to the risk of being smacked around by a significant other?
                      In the US, the fact is that if you are going to be the victim of a crime such as murder or assault, that the probability is much, much higher that it will be someone you know. Most of the time, the killer is a family member or acquaintance.

                      For the incidents in which the relationships were known, 76.8 percent of the victims knew their killers and 23.2 percent were slain by strangers. Among the incidents in which the victims knew their killers, 29.8 percent were murdered by family members and 70.2 percent were killed by acquaintances. ... The 2004 data also revealed that 33.0 percent of female victims were killed by their husbands or boyfriends, and 2.7 percent of the male victims were slain by their wives or girlfriends.
                      - FBI Crime Statistics http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offen...me/murder.html
                      Thorn
                      "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New Identity [Previously: Fictious identity]

                        Statistics is about the same here in Norway in %. The number of victims are of cause fewer since we are only about 5 mill. inhabitants. That was also the reason why our law was made to protect victims of domestic violence. Witness protection has been a side effect of the law, and even victims of trafficking who have been standing up as witness against the mafia have not been granted a new identity with change of social security number.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New Identity [Previously: Fictious identity]

                          I was told that your new SSN is still tied to your old SSN in their system. Kinda defeats the purpose of totally starting over, but unless the bad guy has access. Hopefully is it a one way pointer NEW -> old.

                          As others have said, no real concrete information I have seen yet. I'll have to ask around.
                          PGP Key: https://defcon.org/html/links/dtangent.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New Identity [Previously: Fictious identity]

                            Originally posted by Thorn View Post
                            In the US, the fact is that if you are going to be the victim of a crime such as murder or assault, that the probability is much, much higher that it will be someone you know. Most of the time, the killer is a family member or acquaintance.
                            Granted, this is common knowledge, but my point is that (in my mind anyhow) a witness to organized crime, fink, turned accomplice etc. stands more to lose than an abused partner in a domestic relationship. Though domestic violence is of course nothing to be taken lightly in any part of the world, I find it mind boggling that a witness protection program anywhere would not include things such as organized crime witnesses.

                            Originally posted by elisabeth View Post
                            Witness protection has been a side effect of the law, and even victims of trafficking who have been standing up as witness against the mafia have not been granted a new identity with change of social security number.
                            Now this sheds a little more light. Hypothetically, a vic of domestic violence would be granted relocation/witness protection, and assistance with a new (or pseudo-new) identity, but a witness testifying against a criminal organization would still get protection minus the new SSN?

                            The topic has intrigued me enough to educate myself to some extent on the Norweigen WPP. I'll do some research.
                            "You have cubed asscheeks?"... "Do you not?"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: New Identity [Previously: Fictious identity]

                              Originally posted by sintax_error View Post


                              Now this sheds a little more light. Hypothetically, a vic of domestic violence would be granted relocation/witness protection, and assistance with a new (or pseudo-new) identity, but a witness testifying against a criminal organization would still get protection minus the new SSN?

                              The topic has intrigued me enough to educate myself to some extent on the Norweigen WPP. I'll do some research.
                              Nearly quite correct. In accordance to preparatory work, the main intention of the new law were women who were victims of domestic violence. The argumentation was that SSN was widely used for authentication, and made a person easily traceable. Witness protection was mentioned later, and a witness can for sure also be granted FI under certain conditions.

                              The real fact is that quite a few(They say 6 persons since 2004) have been granted this form for protection. This is in opposite to Sweden where they are more generous and also far more open about this form for protection. If for example the woman and the assailant have kids together, she will not get this form for protection because of the "Law about children and parent" (Joint parental responsibility and visiting rights). There are many examples of judgement where a violent parent has been granted visiting rights and even custody. Police can not overrule parental rights.

                              In february this year the "Instute of journalism " had a course called "Digital tracker dog", and in one day they found 79 person with protection minus new SSN. Among them witnesses from heavy drug and trafficking cases. They used a digital reference book for industry and commerce. So yes - you are absolutely not fully protected as a witness, and also rarely as a victim for domestic violence.

                              "Dark Tangent" Real and fictitious SSN is also tied together here. Both are stored in a special way in the National Register. Real identity will be registered as emigrant and new as immigrated. The reason is that you only "borrow" the new SSN for a undefined period, and sooner or later you will probably have to take your real ID back. A very funny situation, especially when your fingerprint or iris pattern exist in biometric systems. The police have also, according to the law, the right to get information from other private and public organisations without any obstacle of professional secrecy, and then there can be far more persons than the trused inside police and National Register.

                              Seems like you are much more "closed" about stuff like this in USA than here.
                              Last edited by elisabeth; November 11, 2009, 19:32. Reason: Difficulties with marking and deleting text in Opera browser.

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