I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

[phaktor]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

I am 99.8% cool with the new photography rules. the .2% comes from this:

Why is CTF different? It is supposedly THE premiere contest/event at DEF CON and everything you said above (and I snipped out) applies. What's good for Joe Attendee is good for CTF. If you are so uber 1337 and awesome that you don't want your picture taken you're probably going to win, and then you'll get your picture taken at closing so what's the difference?

I say if we are going to make it ok to photo the staff/attendees/speakers/every other contest participant then we need to make CTF play by the same rules.

Speaking as a CTFer, (ACME PHARM) it is to stop people from taking pictures of screens ie having a fake camera crew analyzing what exploit your team is working on etc... or so I guess.

We were told when camera crews were coming through the CTF area, but they were told no screen pictures. we also had to kick some random guy out of our area as he just thought he could come in and start looking over peoples shoulders.

[Chris]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

<snipped a bunch of stuff because it was long>
</snip>

I am 99.8% cool with the new photography rules. the .2% comes from this:

Why is CTF different? It is supposedly THE premiere contest/event at DEF CON and everything you said above (and I snipped out) applies. What's good for Joe Attendee is good for CTF. If you are so uber 1337 and awesome that you don't want your picture taken you're probably going to win, and then you'll get your picture taken at closing so what's the difference?

I say if we are going to make it ok to photo the staff/attendees/speakers/every other contest participant then we need to make CTF play by the same rules.

[Nikita]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

So this year the rules about what the press could film changed. The old rules were "no crowd shots", "no people in the background", stuff like that. This year it was wide open.

After many many years of battling the photographers rights and asking politely for attendees to stop taking photos, we came to the realization.. which everyone in the free world understands.... You have no privacy in public. Simply put there are camera phones, pocket sized 8mp digital cameras, pen cams ( not that we saw anyone using them) and of course the fact that DEF CON is a spectator event itself makes us running around telling attendees to shut it down pointless and a waste of our time...it's grown too much to stop everyone from taking pictures. Why turn a blind eye to the public and then forbid press to do the same.

To be honest, all the other conferences allow and welcome press in to film their events, this is how the con spreads and grows. Good press is better than the mysterious "we can't show you the conference" because assuming everyone wants to hide their hacker identity.
I know *Some* of you want the small close knit group of the days of old, but times change, a new generation is moving in and you are being the equivalent of grandpa screaming " get off my lawn" Yeah, you can't buy a gallon of gas for a dollar and in your day there were less than 100 attendees, we get it. There is no where to go but UP, we are growing, 10k strong this year, we are expanding the show, we are moving to bigger and better hotels and we are offering you MORE for your money than you EVER paid in the past. Why not document and share the images of those not able to attend? Remember looking through defcon.pics when you came home to see if *someone* got a pic of you eating a 50lb in and out burger or that kick ass demo in the hardware village? Or maybe you were stuck at home and couldn't come for whatever reason, weren't you curious what happened?

What about the people who haven't heard of the con yet and run across us because we are featured on the news in a ( FAVORABLE Light) clip? ( Yes, we do work with press still to make sure they aren't publishing crap willy nilly) The word gets out, the Newbies come, and the newbies SHARE info which we all benefit from. We get new people interested, we get new speakers, we get new feedback, we get new contribution, we get new friends. Everyone should be able to experience this Con and fall in love with it, just like you did ten years earlier.

The photography rules were updated to reflect your rights and to get with the times. Press really did not take advantage of the new rules despite your interaction, they were still very much under the wing of our press goons to make sure they were behaving themselves and they did.

I quote http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columni...y-rights_x.htm Which expresses the photographers rights pretty clearly. I know it's not legal code, but it's laymans terms and pretty clear, do a google search or read the links in this article to learn more about your rights as a photographer.

The law in the United States of America is pretty simple. You are allowed to photograph anything with the following exceptions:

• Certain military installations or operations.

• People who have a reasonable expectation of privacy. That is, people who are some place that's not easily visible to the general public, e.g., if you shoot through someone's window with a telephoto lens.

There is NO reasonable expectation of privacy at DEF CON and I struggle with the thought that anyone would expect any privacy in a Las Vegas Casinos at all.

For those who missed the signs, put by registration, the contest area, etc. Here were the rules.

Public photography is now *allowed.
RULES:

1. Groups, "crowd shots", and individuals participating in public events, contests, or activities are *allowed to be photographed.(excluding CTF)

2.Respect the rights of the individual not to be photographed. Do not harass, stalk, or annoy others, deletion of photos can be requested by staff.

3.Photograph private parties & areas outside of the badged conference area AT YOUR OWN RISK.

You consent to these rules with admission to the conference, failure to comply can result in revocation of admissions without refund. *We reserve the right to revoke this policy, at any time, on a case by case basis.

Hope this clears it up as far as the policy is concerned, and do understand that my commentary on the matter are my views and not necessarily the views of my peers at DEF CON.

[kallahar]

So this year the rules about what the press could film changed. The old rules were "no crowd shots", "no people in the background", stuff like that. This year it was wide open.

So sunday I was walking out of the contest area and walk smack dab into a camera crew in the hallway doing an interview with someone. So they were getting on film everyone entering or leaving that doorway.

I didn't like it. I know that I'm probably on a lot of hobbyist videos on youtube, but getting onto TV news isn't something I ever want to do...

What's everyone think, good? bad? am I the only one that wants the old press rules back?

Kallahar