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I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

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  • astcell
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    I guess the bar was lowered after the fame of pool2girl.

    Leave a comment:


  • [Syntax]
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    I remember the mentality of photos at Defcon 9. Any flash triggered an onslaught of nasty looks and people scanning the room to see who had the camera. Generally pointing a camera in someones direction often ended with someone putting a paper in front of their face.

    After being around that for a few days I found myself looking around everytime I saw a flash go off. Honestly I have tons of photos of people doing all sorts of sh*t at Defcon. All of which have never been published online. If it contains questionable content, I don't post it, if someone looks disturbed that I snapped the photo I delete it.

    But over the last 10 years Its become easier and easier to snap photos at Defcon, the glares have nearly vanished, the events have become more public, and people actually visit my archive to look and see what I shot at con. (Ive slacked off the last 2 years).

    Leave a comment:


  • arahel_jazz
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    I was actually surprised to see my picture (un-named background person) in a Wired.com pics page after DC18 CTP. Judging from when the pic was taken, it was before the competition. I mailed dozens of copies of it to co-workers... :-)

    Just goes to show that they will take a picture with just about any un-interesting looking person in it.

    Leave a comment:


  • sintax_error
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    Originally posted by xniko View Post
    Not the same? I agree. My face is out in the open in plain view for all to see. No expectation of privacy there. If I dont want my face seen or photographed, I can stay home. However, a hacker con or not, I'm pretty sure you do in fact have a reasonable expectation of privacy of the contents INSIDE your phone or computer.
    Actually I do have a reasonable expectation of privacy for what's on my laptop during any hacker con, why? Because I like many others take steps to make sure my data stays off the air and wire. And as I stated before, it's a matter of common courtesy and respect, not of expectation of privacy. Just as the Wall of Sheep operators have the common courtesy to obscure characters in sniffed passwords.

    Originally posted by xniko View Post
    We all hoot and haw when the EFF tells us about "DA MAN" gaining access to our private info using silly things like subpoena's and court orders to catch badguys and terrorists and porno dudes but then congratulate each other on a hack well done when we gain access into someones system. Is that a double standard? I'm not being sarcastic, I am really failing to see the major differences between the two.
    Who's this "we all" who gets upset when a criminal or terrorist goes down? If "DA MAN" is catching terrorists and criminals, that's a good thing, kiddo. Frankly, said man would likely find a lot of our boxen uninteresting in regards to terrorism or criminal activity. As there is a pretty big difference between criminals/terrorists and hackers, you seem to be blurring that line.

    My apologies if this goes too far off topic, I've said my piece and I'm done.

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  • renderman
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    Originally posted by xniko View Post
    I don't want to keep beating a dead horse and as such I will concede to the issue of courtesy. My issue is what is covered under that "courtesy"? You can secretly read the information that I have hidden in my cellphone in my pocket without asking my permission, but to take a photo of you is out of bounds?

    I really am NOT trying to be a pain in the ass here. I am just trying to understand the collective mindset here.

    I was under the impression that most "hackers" do so for exploration and that the mantra is that "Information wants to be free" or something to that effect. So then why is it that what is good for the goose is in fact NOT good for the gander?

    I think the general mindset of the group is that the assembled crowd at the con should know enough to secure their shit so the point is moot. Yes there are newbies there to learn, but one assumes and hopes that they know that if they don't know enough to secure it, don't bring it.

    WiFi sniffing: Use a VPN, use the secure network, or just dont use it at all.

    Bluetooth sniffing: Why are you discoverable and using a default PIN?

    Laptop: If you are'nt running a firewall and are running vulnerable services, why are you connecting to the most hostile network on the planet?

    If you are broadcasting your information in the clear to everyone in the room, you have no expectation of privacy, hence the wall of sheep.

    You seem to think there is some sort of magic skill we have where there is no defense and no hope and by simple proximity to one of us, we can read everything on every device you have including your wallet. Last I checked, I missed the breakout session that taught that skill.

    In general, you can secure your technology, securing your face is a bit trickier (with the exception of mask boy, but in the vegas heat, that can't be fun), hence our efforts to find a balance to ensure privacy (like the wall of sheep obscuring some characters) and the realities of the situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • xniko
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    I don't want to keep beating a dead horse and as such I will concede to the issue of courtesy. My issue is what is covered under that "courtesy"? You can secretly read the information that I have hidden in my cellphone in my pocket without asking my permission, but to take a photo of you is out of bounds?

    I really am NOT trying to be a pain in the ass here. I am just trying to understand the collective mindset here.

    I was under the impression that most "hackers" do so for exploration and that the mantra is that "Information wants to be free" or something to that effect. So then why is it that what is good for the goose is in fact NOT good for the gander?

    Leave a comment:


  • renderman
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    I'll add that as the guy in the EL wire coat glowing throughout friday night, I am well aware that doing something that attracts attention comes with certain responsibilities and a loss of some anonymity.


    I think the big issue is, as Sintax mentioned, common courtesy.

    Leave a comment:


  • streaker69
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    Originally posted by xniko View Post
    OK. Fair enough. But with that logic.. you are out in the open at a public event, so I should be able to photo you with no issues, correct? Your facial patterns are freely traveling within my field of view, undesguised, so I guess I can intercept.. Hahahah
    That's pretty much what everyone has been saying.

    But how can you be so sure that people aren't wearing a disguise? It takes me a long time to get this beard looking natural.

    Leave a comment:


  • xniko
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    OK. Fair enough. But with that logic.. you are out in the open at a public event, so I should be able to photo you with no issues, correct? Your facial patterns are freely traveling within my field of view, undesguised, so I guess I can intercept.. Hahahah

    Leave a comment:


  • streaker69
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    Originally posted by xniko View Post
    Not the same? I agree. My face is out in the open in plain view for all to see. No expectation of privacy there. If I dont want my face seen or photographed, I can stay home. However, a hacker con or not, I'm pretty sure you do in fact have a reasonable expectation of privacy of the contents INSIDE your phone or computer. We all hoot and haw when the EFF tells us about "DA MAN" gaining access to our private info using silly things like subpoena's and court orders to catch badguys and terrorists and porno dudes but then congratulate each other on a hack well done when we gain access into someones system. Is that a double standard? I'm not being sarcastic, I am really failing to see the major differences between the two.
    But, once you broadcast information over the airwaves, it's no longer inside your computer, is it? Therefore it's fair game to whomever intercepts it. No one is talking about hacking your box directly, it's about what's transmitted.

    Leave a comment:


  • xniko
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    Not the same? I agree. My face is out in the open in plain view for all to see. No expectation of privacy there. If I dont want my face seen or photographed, I can stay home. However, a hacker con or not, I'm pretty sure you do in fact have a reasonable expectation of privacy of the contents INSIDE your phone or computer. We all hoot and haw when the EFF tells us about "DA MAN" gaining access to our private info using silly things like subpoena's and court orders to catch badguys and terrorists and porno dudes but then congratulate each other on a hack well done when we gain access into someones system. Is that a double standard? I'm not being sarcastic, I am really failing to see the major differences between the two.

    Leave a comment:


  • sintax_error
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    I'm going to have to agree with Render that it's a respect issue. I'll even go as far as to say it's a common courtesy issue. Have the decency to obscure faces of those you accidentally photograph if you don't know weather they are cool with it or not. Yes, bandanna-boy, counter productive, you are simply calling undue attention to yourself. Some things are fair game, those on stage unless the event states no photography for example. However, even then, if someone asks you to either not photograph them or to obscure their face, their reasons are their own, and that should be respected. My 2 cents, YMMV, etc.

    [Edit; addition]
    You're missing the point, xniko. Everyone attending DEFCON should know that anything you send over the air is open to interception. It is expected that if you don't take steps to secure your data anywhere, hacker con or not, it's open to attack. a picture of someone is not the same as that person's packets going over open airwaves.
    Last edited by sintax_error; September 1, 2010, 18:16.

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  • xniko
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    Interesting... so what I'm hearing here is that at a *hacker* conference, where people divulge exploits in which entry can be made into just about anything, cellphone communications are intercepted or disrupted and there's a guy running around with a big nerf looking gun which grabs peoples wifi/bluetooth information from their phones and computers and then potentially posts it up on a "Wall Of Sheep" .. but the concern is RIGHT TO PRIVACY when it comes to YOUR picture? It's ironic in the same sense of the EFF getting so much support from those that are doing all the privacy invading! And I dont mean the Fed's. Hahahaha!

    Leave a comment:


  • Quiet
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    Originally posted by Nikita View Post
    Haha. That reminds me, there was a guy at con with a skull bandanna over his face. He was wearing it as if he was an Anarchist at WTO or a super leet hacker the face of the underground trying to hide. It was a bit overkill and EVERYTIME I saw him I cringed and WANTED to take his picture at the same time. It's like he's trying to say YES I HAVE SOMETHING TO FEAR LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME.Really dude, you are not that special, no one cares, you are not a special snowflake and all you are doing is drawing attention to yourself. Plus...you are intentionally hiding your face in Las Vegas....say hello to every camera watching you and every act you do suspect. Neil put it best....Ever hear of Hiding in plain sight.
    Nikita is right about being watched...
    Intentionally hiding your face or partially covering your face while in a casino, is a big watch me the entire time I'm on property and let security know what I look like & where I'm at flag. And if you ever uncover your face while on property, it's a suprise we now have a face shot and you get entered into our persons-of-interest book.

    Leave a comment:


  • Liquid8or
    replied
    Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

    [QUOTE=Nikita;117229]Haha. That reminds me, there was a guy at con with a skull bandanna over his face. He was wearing it as if he was an Anarchist at WTO or a super leet hacker the face of the underground trying to hide. It was a bit overkill and EVERYTIME I saw him I cringed and WANTED to take his picture at the same time. It's like he's trying to say YES I HAVE SOMETHING TO FEAR LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME.

    Actually he did get get snapped by someone and may have been in my clips filming the DJ's in the Capri.

    Leave a comment:

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