Stuxnet

[D0ct0r]

Re: Stuxnet

My question is has any new info surfaced about the few small files that have not been decoded?

[astcell]

Re: Stuxnet

Not really an act of war. I see retaliation in kind. It would be hard to fight byes with bullets unless things got really serious like taking out ATMs and stuff (have you seen Prime Risk?). We hack them, they hack us, we play that game in the digital field.

[Thorn]

Re: Stuxnet

Sure, I'll accept that, but I'm not sure how to interpret a spy sabotaging their facility either

I think we can all agree that in a perfect world, nobody would need or want spies. The truth of it is that every nation does need them, and uses them a great deal, although it's probably much less 007 and much more of "Here's a $1000, now just give me a copy of those blueprints." Espionage is most likely tolerated by every nation for the simple reason it's a lot cheaper, as well as more expediant for a lot of stuff between diplomatics means and war.

Stuxnet just seems to be a logical jump in the spy game.

I think you interpreted the intent of my statement the other way around. I think killing people is a lot worse than using malware to break centrifuges.

Gotcha. That's much more consistent with your views in the past. I did interpert it backwards.

[theprez98]

Re: Stuxnet

No, IMO, it's more akin to something like spying: something that every nation takes part in, and then gets morally outraged over when the other guys do it.

I generally agree, although I think we (the US) might sound more outraged if/when it happened/happens to us.

[bascule]

Re: Stuxnet

No, IMO, it's more akin to something like spying: something that every nation takes part in, and then gets morally outraged over when the other guys do it.

In the case of Stuxnet, the net effect may have been more widespread in a given facility, but it's not much different from getting a spy to perform some sabotage.

Sure, I'll accept that, but I'm not sure how to interpret a spy sabotaging their facility either

You surprise me with this.

I think you interpreted the intent of my statement the other way around. I think killing people is a lot worse than using malware to break centrifuges.

[Thorn]

Re: Stuxnet

Regardless of your feelings for (or against) the US, Israel, and Iran--do you consider this an act of war?

No, IMO, it's more akin to something like spying: something that every nation takes part in, and then gets morally outraged over when the other guys do it.

In the case of Stuxnet, the net effect may have been more widespread in a given facility, but it's not much different from getting a spy to perform some sabotage.

Yes, although one I'm not quite as morally opposed to as drones in Pakistan that are actually killing people but I'll leave that one where it is and return to the subject at hand ;)

You surprise me with this. While I'm OK with drone attacks in and of themselves, drone attacks in a location where we are not officially providing military assistance, or not officially involved in hostilities, strike me as much more legally questionable than running code on on some computers in a nation that is openly hostile to us.

While I understand your reluctance to drag this off the topic of Stuxnet, per se, in some ways I see drones as the flip side of Stuxnet. Both are technology-driven attacks that reduce the amount of "boots on the ground." Generally, I'm OK with things that reduces the bad guys ability to strike at us (or reduces the bad guys themselves), and keeps the amount of our military guys getting shot at to a minimum. Drone and Stuxnet both so those things.

[bascule]

Re: Stuxnet

Regardless of your feelings for (or against) the US, Israel, and Iran--do you consider this an act of war?

Yes, although one I'm not quite as morally opposed to as drones in Pakistan that are actually killing people but I'll leave that one where it is and return to the subject at hand ;)

[theprez98]

Re: Stuxnet

No doubt everyone in the community is just *shocked* that the two most likely countries to "attack" Iran are behind Stuxnet. :-)

Regardless of your feelings for (or against) the US, Israel, and Iran--do you consider this an act of war?

[DaKahuna]

Re: Stuxnet

In case you haven't seen it already, it's been confirmed the US and Israel created Stuxnet. Apparently it was designed to attack a single facility they infiltrated which had an isolated network and thus they assumed it wouldn't make it onto the Internet in general. However, that was not the case...

Guess it just goes to prove what they say about assumptions .. lol

[bascule]

Re: Stuxnet

In case you haven't seen it already, it's been confirmed the US and Israel created Stuxnet. Apparently it was designed to attack a single facility they infiltrated which had an isolated network and thus they assumed it wouldn't make it onto the Internet in general. However, that was not the case...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...control-of-it/

[DarthSnader]

Re: Stuxnet

"Coordinated assassinations"? Please cite some credible source(s), or it's all a just another loony conspiracy theory.

Sorry, should have linked

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...-attack-claims

in addition to the other links provided.


It's true that they happened a while after stuxnet was noticed, yet they happened around the time stuxnet was taking action and spreading.

I am not saying that it is Israel or the US behind it, but I wouldnt be surprised if it were a state.

[Thorn]

Re: Stuxnet

It looks like Israel may have all but admitted that Stuxnet was their creation, without actually saying it in black and white. The Telegraph (UK) ran a story today which says that a highlight reel of "operational success" played at the retirement party for the head of the IDF, references Stuxnet.

Israeli security chief celebrates Stuxnet cyber attack

A showreel played at a retirement party for the head of the Israeli Defence Forces has strengthened claims the country's security forces were responsible for a cyber attack on the Iranian nuclear programme.

The video of Lieutenant General Gabi Ashkenazi's operational successes included references to Stuxnet, a computer virus that disrupted the Natanz nuclear enrichment site last year, Ha'aretz reported.

...

Read the whole story here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...er-attack.html

[Thorn]

Re: Stuxnet

I agree with what you're saying, I was merely pointing to a source of the other poster's idea of coordinated assassinations. I wasn't trying to make any statement to either confirm nor deny his assertions.

Understood. If someone is going to present that kind of argument they should at least back it up with some factual basis.

Generally, the problem that I have with most conspiracy theories in general is that the draw huge conclusions from tiny (or non-existent) facts. When you start to analyze them logically, comparing them against other well established facts (like time-lines) they often start to fall apart. If DarthSnader had posted the same link, I probably would have responded the same as I did to you, but he didn't even do that.

[streaker69]

Re: Stuxnet

<shrug> First, that's five and a half months after Stuxnet was first detected, and a year after it id believed that it was first released in the wild. IF there were foreign powers behind both the worm and the assassinations, logically they would do both closer together so the guys in charge wouldn't have time to start rebuilding the infrastructure damaged allegedly by the worm.

Secondly, that's not exactly the way that either the US or Israel has been known to deal with assassinations in the past. Multiple bullets in the brainpan is a lot more efficient, and usually a lot surer. Sure either could hire local talent to make it look like a local job, but even so, the timing is all wrong.

All-in-all, it the killings sound like the political unrest that's been going on there for close to two years, and a conspiracy theory still seems like a loony tunes to me.

I agree with what you're saying, I was merely pointing to a source of the other poster's idea of coordinated assassinations. I wasn't trying to make any statement to either confirm nor deny his assertions.

[Thorn]

Re: Stuxnet

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112901560.html

Dunno who's behind it, but there were some attacks.

<shrug> First, that's five and a half months after Stuxnet was first detected, and a year after it is believed that it was first released in the wild. IF there were foreign powers behind both the worm and the assassinations, logically they would do both closer together so the guys in charge wouldn't have time to start rebuilding the infrastructure damaged allegedly by the worm.

Secondly, that's not exactly the way that either the US or Israel has been known to deal with assassinations in the past. Multiple bullets in the brainpan is a lot more efficient, and usually a lot surer. Sure either could hire local talent to make it look like a local job, but even so, the timing is all wrong.

All-in-all, it the killings sound like the political unrest that's been going on there for close to two years, and a conspiracy theory still seems like a loony tunes to me.