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  • lockpicking legislation

    Please forgive the political nature of this video, and forward to the 1:23 mark as the point of this video is not political, but possible lockpicking legislation (and humor). The video is NJ Gov Chris Christie and he's basically mocking the legislature for spending time on things that aren't important. At the 1:23 point he talks about how the legislature is spending time on trying to regulate lockpicking because of "an epidemic of lockpicking." He's being facetious, of course; nice to see a politician have a good sense of humor. But also, it's a good reminder that some legislatures are still trying to criminalize lockpicking.
    Last edited by theprez98; October 28, 2010, 16:56.
    "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

  • #2
    Re: lockpicking legislation

    He never specified where those locks were located, however.
    Never drink anything larger than your head!





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    • #3
      Re: lockpicking legislation

      Originally posted by theprez98 View Post
      But also, it's a good reminder that some legislatures are still trying to criminalize lockpicking.
      As crazy as bills can get, I don't think this one will get very far--Apple tried to criminalize the jailbreaking of iPhones a little while ago, but the feds ruled in favor of jailbreaking on the grounds that it was educational.

      I am curious to see how this pans out.

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      • #4
        Re: lockpicking legislation

        Originally posted by orwhal View Post
        As crazy as bills can get, I don't think this one will get very far--Apple tried to criminalize the jailbreaking of iPhones a little while ago, but the feds ruled in favor of jailbreaking on the grounds that it was educational.

        I am curious to see how this pans out.
        I'm not sure I understand the connection you're trying to draw between jailbreaking and lockpicking.
        "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

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        • #5
          Re: lockpicking legislation

          I think that what he is trying to say is that if you picture the legislators that would see locksport criminalized as Apple, inc. and those who participate in sport picking as those who develop jailbreaks, the legislators wouldn't get far in his opinion, I think... That's what I got out of it anyway.

          I can't speak for legislation in other states, as I'm not too well versed in interstate locksmithing laws. However, out here, the regulations are already in place preventing retailers of commercial locksmith supply from selling to individuals who are not not licensed locksmiths. The possession of such tools is also regulated to some extent, the prime sentence in the criminal code being "with intent to feloniously break or enter into..." The fact is there will always be politicians who will be out to get locksmithing hobbyists. It's one of those things that will always be synonymous with criminality until the masses are educated on the topic.
          "You have cubed asscheeks?"... "Do you not?"

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          • #6
            Re: lockpicking legislation

            hah, yeah... Daisy sent me a link to that video and i enjoyed that segment.

            fortunately, that section of law pertained (i believe) to auto lock tools. lockpicks are still 100% legal to own and possess in NJ, as long as you're not breaking into anything.
            "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
            - Trent Reznor

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            • #7
              Re: lockpicking legislation

              Originally posted by theprez98 View Post
              I'm not sure I understand the connection you're trying to draw between jailbreaking and lockpicking.
              Sorry - should have explained more. Basically it's what sintax_error said: jailbreaking an iPhone is akin to picking a lock in that they both are ways around barriers.

              The example's a bit contrived, but the similarity holds -- both Apple and the legislators are labeling exploration as exploitative, instead of using said 'exploits' to build better locks.

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              • #8
                Re: lockpicking legislation

                I really hate the Virginia law.

                I don't really get how "prima facie evidence of criminal intent" is compatible with concepts "mens rea" and "innocent until proven guilty".

                I used to carry my lockpicks in my car, but my paranoia got the best of me and I took them out.

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                • #9
                  Re: lockpicking legislation

                  Originally posted by Gigs View Post
                  I really hate the Virginia law.

                  I don't really get how "prima facie evidence of criminal intent" is compatible with concepts "mens rea" and "innocent until proven guilty".

                  I used to carry my lockpicks in my car, but my paranoia got the best of me and I took them out.
                  You could always become a licensed locksmith:
                  http://www.ehow.com/how_6506367_locksmith-virginia.html

                  I know several people that have gone this route, and having a state-issued license as a locksmith causes law enforcement officers to be less interested in your intentions when they find you are carrying tools.

                  Think of it like carrying a concealed weapon.

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                  • #10
                    Re: lockpicking legislation

                    Yea, but just because the police don't like something, doesn't give them automatic jurisdiction over it...thats may be a slippery slope. That innocent till proven guilty thing....Now your wearing a black ski mask, have a backpack full of picks/tools and a ladder..he may have a point.. :)

                    With that said, i don't intentionally antagonize them. Just not as fun anymore.... I would think, if you are not trespassing, or are not somewhere that you are not suppose to be..and had your trusty TOOOL membership card you might be able to make your case....I live in NC and have no intentions of paying for the class of license since i am not locksmith and the law is very specific on it. I imagine that some review of what they define locksmith as. I could see someone being creative in their prosecution and view making money manipulating locks as being a lock professional.

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                    • #11
                      Re: lockpicking legislation

                      I used to live in Virginia and picked locks at bars all the time. Its "prima facie" law is one of the most strict, but its all about enforcement. Either way, having a law on the books against that doesn't include a condition about intent would be disturbing indeed.

                      Another side of this coin is the research. There are quite a few folks out there finding vulnerabilities in high-sec locks (myself included). So far, the response from companies has ranged between positive and dismissive. I have to wonder how long it will be before one of them decides to try the lawsuit option.

                      Physical security vs. research/hobby doesn't have the same track record that infosec does. "Patch the bug and move on" is not the accepted response to exploit releases/disclosure. Seems like its just a matter of time before someone finds a flaw in Abloy,etc.. and ends up in court. This scenario seems just as likely (maybe more) even if the company is approached privately first.

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                      • #12
                        Re: lockpicking legislation

                        Originally posted by jkthecjer View Post
                        "prima facie" law is one of the most strict, but its all about enforcement. Either way, having a law on the books against that doesn't include a condition about intent would be disturbing indeed
                        to my understanding, nearly all of the state statues that include a "prima facie" clause in their laws do still make "intent" a critical part of the prosecution of any lockpick related crime.

                        the difference is that possession alone of the tools is enough for the state to establish intent, and it's up to the defendant to explain otherwise. i consider this a pretty unethical end-run around the constitution, but the fact remains that "intent" is still part of the law... and security researchers can rather easily make a case that they had no criminal intent.
                        "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                        - Trent Reznor

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