How was the Press?

[astcell]

Re: How was the Press?

Seeing the press is not as viable as them seeing you. I took many pictures shooting over shoulders from behind people, photographing their lockpicking or other skill and specifically not getting their face. At the shoot those who did not want to be photographed wore a strip of purple tape which was easy to spot. It's not fair to have you run from the press or turn and hide if you think they MAY take a picture of record something. better than they can spot you first and direct their energies elsewhere.

[TheCotMan]

Re: How was the Press?

Sad part is, I've looked into this and the amount of power nessecary to cause interference or misbehaviour in modern digicams is pretty high and would nessecitate carrying a tesla coil or spark gap generator (jacobs ladder) with me at all times. Now while this is a tempting thing (we all know mad scientists are required to have these) it does have some limitiations.
...

This was also covered in a presentation on high energy weapons at Defcon. The speaker pointed out that power consumption and utilization is often computed as a rate with timein denominator.

For example, watts.

Power (watts) = amps * volts
amps= coulombs / second

Conventional work in power includes an assumption that (coulomb)(volts)/(second) is sustained, not, "pulsed." However, this need not be the case. If the time to utilize the energy being delivered can be reduced to 0.1 seconds instead of one full second, the effective power per second appears to be 10 times greater because it is not sustained, but instead concentrated.
With this in mind, there is then a race to reduce the time to discharge and power utilization to smaller and smaller increments of time.
If I remember correctly, the talk on this included use of a small amount of explosives to force a faster pulse of power in less time.
Did you consider all of this in your research? (You are pretty thorough in whatever you choose to learn about, so you probably did consider this.)

* Oh yeah, we are still talking, "humor," and, "entertainment," not something that would actually be tried at a hotel/casino because we would not want to discuss this in earnest on a public forum as something to be attempted at Defcon. (Why? Fist Full of Yen, 2/2, 8 seconds through 16 seconds)

[renderman]

Re: How was the Press?

, I'd still like to support the idea of having the press have a badge that makes it *obvious* that they are press.

I still say bright orange Gitmo style jumpsuits with PRESS in big letter accross the back.

[shrdlu]

Re: How was the Press?

While I won't be returning to Defcon, I'd still like to support the idea of having the press have a badge that makes it *obvious* that they are press. I'm one of the votes on the "I couldn't tell who was press and who wasn't" option. Unlike Erehwon, I am still photo adverse. In fact, this year, I did my best to keep as low a profile as possible, while taking my leave of those that I managed to find.

The idea of wearing something that says "I'd like not to have my picture taken" or "I don't want to be interviewed, thanks" is just as arahel_jazz said; it will just draw attention to you. Better for us to be able to spot them, and just avoid them.

[TheCotMan]

Re: How was the Press?

I'll be honest, I'm becoming less photo adverse, maybe that's with age, and stuff,

But consider this option for next year, another optional badge for Defcon attendees, TagMeNot which is so simple, I am scratching my head to why didn't I think of this earlier?

Opt-out for pictures taken in public

TagMeNot is a pre-emptive, anticipatory, vendor independent, and free opt-out technology for pictures taken in public places

The TagMeNot is a QR-Code that links to the site TagmeNot.info, where your will of not being tagged and recognized is clearly stated and could not be ignored

Pre-Defcon Forum Discussion: Video/pictures & Defcon

Why not have some small designator to wear in a specific spot that gives people an understanding on where you stand on being photographed. For the Defcon Forum Meet this year I have silly stick-on tags that say things like "Talk to me", "Go Away", and varies combinations.

Reply to this idea

The first rule of being incognito is to hide in plain sight. Throwing a red sticker on to keep people from taking your picture just screams "I am trying to hide - take my picture please".

I don't recommend it.

Hope this helps discussion of this idea,
-Cot

[erehwon]

Re: How was the Press?

The press I dealt with was pretty decent. I had alot les interaction than others and generally dont care about pictures, so I was not as vigilant as others.

I for one am imagining modifying my cane to whack anyone who takes my picture without asking to reenforce the point

I'll be honest, I'm becoming less photo adverse, maybe that's with age, and stuff,

But consider this option for next year, another optional badge for Defcon attendees, TagMeNot which is so simple, I am scratching my head to why didn't I think of this earlier?

Opt-out for pictures taken in public

TagMeNot is a pre-emptive, anticipatory, vendor independent, and free opt-out technology for pictures taken in public places

The TagMeNot is a QR-Code that links to the site TagmeNot.info, where your will of not being tagged and recognized is clearly stated and could not be ignored

[renderman]

Re: How was the Press?

[My comment here is not a suggestion to actually do what is suggested, as that would be vandalism, and against the law. This is only as a point of humor.]

Electronic devices are susceptible to interference, damage, and data loss when they encounter strong magnetic fields. Such is the relationship between electron flow and magnetism as each can influence the other. Sufficiently high levels of electromagnetic interference, even for very short duration can have damaging results to media or circuits. However, the computation of force between two charges/sources is reduced by an inverse square of distance between the two objects/sources, so being in, "Striking Distance," would decrease the power demands. Next, the amount of power required for such a thing is significantly large that a portable device would likely need a long charge time, and a very short distance.

Why risk time in jail for hitting someone with a cane when the tool of their abuse can be neutralized without even touching it? ;-)

[Now back to being serious...]

Sad part is, I've looked into this and the amount of power nessecary to cause interference or misbehaviour in modern digicams is pretty high and would nessecitate carrying a tesla coil or spark gap generator (jacobs ladder) with me at all times. Now while this is a tempting thing (we all know mad scientists are required to have these) it does have some limitiations.

I'm thinking a stamp or something similar with something offensive that wont wash off for a day that I can whack them in the forehead with if they are blatently abusing the photo policy.

I personally took very few photos as I was a major critic of the policy and would rather err on the side of privacy over my failing memory.
The amount of power necessary to destroy circuits (hardware) with electromagnetic fields can be high enough to cause a researcher harm. Several presentation at past Defcon have discussed these kinds of technology, and most include warnings to anyone that may want to follow them. Demonstration of devices that disrupted software on electronic devices, but did not destroy hardware have appeared at past Defcon. Pictures of devices that speakers claimed could destroy hardware have appeared in presentation slides. In the demos I saw at Defcon, the target device could be "hard reset" and return to normal function. I did not see all such demos, so it is possible some target devices could not be (easily) reset and return to function.

[TheCotMan]

Re: How was the Press?

I for one am imagining modifying my cane to whack anyone who takes my picture without asking to reenforce the point

[My comment here is not a suggestion to actually do what is suggested, as that would be vandalism, and against the law. This is only as a point of humor.]

Electronic devices are susceptible to interference, damage, and data loss when they encounter strong magnetic fields. Such is the relationship between electron flow and magnetism as each can influence the other. Sufficiently high levels of electromagnetic interference, even for very short duration can have damaging results to media or circuits. However, the computation of force between two charges/sources is reduced by an inverse square of distance between the two objects/sources, so being in, "Striking Distance," would decrease the power demands. Next, the amount of power required for such a thing is significantly large that a portable device would likely need a long charge time, and a very short distance.

Why risk time in jail for hitting someone with a cane when the tool of their abuse can be neutralized without even touching it? ;-)

[Now back to being serious...]
The amount of power necessary to destroy circuits (hardware) with electromagnetic fields can be high enough to cause a researcher harm. Several presentation at past Defcon have discussed these kinds of technology, and most include warnings to anyone that may want to follow them. Demonstration of devices that disrupted software on electronic devices, but did not destroy hardware have appeared at past Defcon. Pictures of devices that speakers claimed could destroy hardware have appeared in presentation slides. In the demos I saw at Defcon, the target device could be "hard reset" and return to normal function. I did not see all such demos, so it is possible some target devices could not be (easily) reset and return to function.

[renderman]

Re: How was the Press?

The press I dealt with was pretty decent. I had alot les interaction than others and generally dont care about pictures, so I was not as vigilant as others.

I did see alot of people whipping out cell phones and taking pics without asking permission. Alot of that was while I wore my blinky suit so I expected it, but other times I confronted people and reminded them to ask first.

I agree with the other person (I'm still tired and not going to search) who said we should make the photo/video policy uniform for everyone and also make a big deal about informing people of it.

I for one am imagining modifying my cane to whack anyone who takes my picture without asking to reenforce the point

[Tynius]

Re: How was the Press?

The one complaint I had was walking into the Chillout room and through a a press shot (I assume, they had lights up, etc) set up at the door of the Chillout room.

I proceeded in, trying to keep my face turned away and sat down with my back against one of the walls and, I assume someone complained about them shooting the door. So they moved over to the corner I was sitting in. Couldn't win.

It'd be best if there was an area you could go to if you want to interview someone which is not in a common area. I understand they wanted a quiet place to interview in, but it needs to be somewhere where a sign can be posted so that people are aware of what is going on.

Tyn.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: How was the Press?

the person who wrote to me about the Shoot, etc (Rebecca Wexler) attended and had a really good time. she and her cameraman (who wasn't filming) were very respectful, and they had an Australian friend with them who i badged in as "un-free" and gave them a laugh.

The thoroughly seemed to have a fun time and were very impressed with the safety and level-headedness that abounded, right along with the "yee-haw" nature of the whole affair.

they also stopped by the Beverage Cooling event (which i will be glad to see continue, since i think it's a good "visual" type of contest, suitable for press to gawp and giggle and generally see things other than folk sitting at keyboards*)

* i realize this is a very small segment of the contests, actually... just saying that i like giving the opportunity for B-roll that doesn't involve laptops.

[e2fsck]

Re: How was the Press?

Only thing I really noticed was camera placement. They should aim away from crowds. I walked into frame a few times completely on accident.

[Dallas]

Re: How was the Press?

It would be better if they "had" to have a badge. We ran into many who came up with (insert reason) they did not have a press badge, or in some cases any badge. I also did not feel it was right to have our conversations being recorded (one had a tape recorder going) and another had their camera recording while down (audio/ not good video). Then there is the whole "Im a blogger" with a 5-10k rig walking around jockeying for position in front of speakers (and the Defcon camera). Just need clarification on these folks.

I had some good and some bad press interactions this year. Yet again I was filmed (by NBC Nightly News no less) in the hallway without my permission. This time I was wearing my red security goon shirt, so my shift lead and I confronted them immediately. They got a stern talking to and were told to not do it again, but I know how the press works. Unless you throw them out, they'll keep doing it again and again until you stop them.

On a good note, I walked into the wall of sheep when they were interviewing someone and the defcon press escort was preventing people from accidentally walking into the background. Good job.

Here are my recommendations for next year:
1) Change the title from "press/human video rules" to "Audio/Video/Photo Rules" - that way it's clear that the rules apply to everyone equally, we're not out to screw the press over.
2) Put the rules in the program and on signs all over con. The signage didn't go up until saturday morning. EVERYONE needs to know the rules as early as possible.
3) It would also be great if the press had to sign the sheet saying that they understand the rules BEFORE they get their pass. It's all about communicating the rules before it's a problem.
4) Please please please make the press passes much more obvious. At the very least, those of us that absolutely don't want to take part in anything to do with the press can leave the area before a problem develops. I know that the Vanity Fair guy was using an audio recorder (in a good way), but I had no easy way of noticing that until I was in recording range. There's absolutely nothing stopping a reporter from having a recorder running the entire time, and just hiding his press badge. If the press badge is bright green and obvious then it gives the attendees at least a chance to opt-out.
5) The defcon provided press escorts need to be there for the attendee's benefit, not the press's. I personally noticed several escorts chatting away on their cell phones the entire time rather than paying attention and protecting the humans.

Kallahar

[erehwon]

Re: How was the Press?

I had some good and some bad press interactions this year. Yet again I was filmed (by NBC Nightly News no less) in the hallway without my permission. This time I was wearing my red security goon shirt, so my shift lead and I confronted them immediately. They got a stern talking to and were told to not do it again, but I know how the press works. Unless you throw them out, they'll keep doing it again and again until you stop them.

On a good note, I walked into the wall of sheep when they were interviewing someone and the defcon press escort was preventing people from accidentally walking into the background. Good job.

Here are my recommendations for next year:

[...]

Kallahar

As a pseudo-working member of the print/online press [Cough Cough] All these recommendations should be addressed, especially number four!

4) Please please please make the press passes much more obvious. At the very least, those of us that absolutely don't want to take part in anything to do with the press can leave the area before a problem develops. I know that the Vanity Fair guy was using an audio recorder (in a good way), but I had no easy way of noticing that until I was in recording range. There's absolutely nothing stopping a reporter from having a recorder running the entire time, and just hiding his press badge. If the press badge is bright green and obvious then it gives the attendees at least a chance to opt-out.
5) The defcon provided press escorts need to be there for the attendee's benefit, not the press's. I personally noticed several escorts chatting away on their cell phones the entire time rather than paying attention and protecting the humans.

Kallahar

I know that myself and Astcell who's been working with me for years know the rules, sign off on the written ones to get our badge, and know the unwritten rules, but yes there were a few members of the press, blogger, and analyst corps that were being a little covert, either on purpose or just clueless to the enviroment and it only became apparent on Saturday and Sunday.

The simple design of the badges were great, but unless you really looked at them, you couldn't tell the difference between the speaker and the press. For as long as I remember the press badges were green, and I agree, they need to be some bright obnoxious green color that says go away from me unless you want the attention.

As long as I'm at it, I'm sorry I haven't been floating around the forums as much as I like to have, I'll go into it more later, but Defconpics.org will be back online the way it was in the past sometime next week, and there is a new (I know I've said this before) InfoSec News that will be live soon, still free and with a number of fixes and additions that I've had on my wish list for years.

[TheCotMan]

Re: How was the Press?

I don't know if I ran into any press at Defcon; I don't remember seeing a press badge, but that does not mean I did not run into any. I did see people carrying large video cameras, and assumed they were press, but did not get close enough to see their badge. The few times I saw them, they appeared to be setting up or tearing down, but did not appear to be filming or taking pictures.

I think not5150 was at the DC Shoot, and if it was him, he went so far as to wear a vest that said in high-contrast letters, "PRESS," which was great. The woman who was the reporter for PBS and I think her camera-man (it was a guy) did not have anything to identify themselves as press, but they said they were not going to film people, and so long as they were not acting like press, I guess that did not matter.

It is possible I was captured on film or video without noticing this was happening. I'll have to wait and see if I was imaged or video-recorded without permission.

Most people I met at Defcon were fine with having their picture taken. There were a few exceptions:
* One Info-booth staff member.
* One Vendor (Serapin) (spelling) though they were happy with me taking a picture of their sign.
* 3 People at the dispatch desk, though the fourth member was fine with it.
* 3 People (humans) in the LP Village. Most of the people in the LP Village that I snapped pictures of, allowed me to snap them from behind so I was able to avoid capturing their faces. Letting people know this was my intention lead to greater success in getting permission.
* All players and people running the oCTF contest did not want to be imaged, so they were not. They were fine with me taking pictures of some of their signs, and papers at their table, which I did.

I did not ask any of the kids if I could take their pictures, and did not take any of their pictures except in one case, when parents of a kid and their kid were in a hallway, walking up to someone working on a puzzle. I asked the parents and kid and people at the table if it was ok to take their picture, and they all said yes. I plan to obscure the face of the kid, even though permission was granted.

I feel no ill will towards those that enjoy privacy, and am happy to not include them in images and then show them what was captured in the images and pictures taken, to put them at ease, and understand they were not included in any shots.

Recording video was difficult... I recorded video (with permission) in the CTF area. I planned to record the scoreboard to show the different frames that they cycled through. This was easy to start, but people continued to walk in front of where I was filming. This will result in a video that is sort of hacked-up and pieced together as I edit out frames with people crossing the area I was filming.

Similar problems existed at the DC shoot. Though people did identify themselves as not wanting to be in videos, it really sucked when one guy coincidentally followed me around from booth to booth and walked in front of what I was filming. Part of me was a but upset at this and I thought, "well, if this guy wants to keep getting in the shot, then maybe he really wants to be recorded on film," but the other thought won: "he is just oblivious to the world around him and the environment he is in, and has no idea there is a guy with a crappy video camera recording video in an area he decided to walk into." However, it was really great to have purple tape on shirts of people in an "X" to let people identify themselves as people that did not want to be filmed; this will make it MUCH easier to edit the recorded video of the shoot this year, and edit-out those that did not want to be filmed. (Sorry to those of you that were filmed before you turned from side-ways to expose your back and show you had a purple tape "X" on your shirt. I plan to edit you out of video before publishing anything as available for download.)