Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?
I Think this is a very valid point. Personally I think it is great to get kids involved and those who have attended defcon prior to bringing their kids know what to expect and can make that choice. I see a problem happening where a parent brings their child and defcon is a first for both of them. The parent may not realize (even with warning) what might go on at defcon and that is where an issue like Kallahar mentions will happen and we will have an angry parent.
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Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?
I don't want kids at defcon because for some of the things we do it's not the KID who will get in trouble, it's US. If a parent complains on camera that people are being offensive in front of their children then it's not the kid who gets judged, it's the adults. It's not the parents, it's the attendees.
Sure, in our community we can shame the parents, but when the outside world views us it's "think of the children".
Of course, most parents/kids are just fine, but it's the 2% who will fuck it up for everyone.
KallaharLeave a comment:
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Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?
There was a Keurig in the room...but the coffee thingies were in the wet bar fridge. And the minute you took it out of the fridge they charge you for it! Blech. I don't drink coffee.
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On a side note, is there a policy that I can't carry my ice chest of booze around the con? My ice chest got kicked out of the con because the hotel complained that I was preventing sales or some bullshit like that. My goodness! I only had a 24 pack of Coronas, 12 pack of Mike's hard lemonade, and some rum and coke!! Not all of us can afford $8/beer. So I saved money and bought cool tech and swag! BTW, I drank most of it myself. I did give a couple of Coronas to some of my favorite goons though! :DLeave a comment:
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Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?
If it's one thing I cannot stand as a teacher, it is this entitlement instilled into today's youth. Some students feel they deserve to have the answer, to have things easy, and to have ignorance because someone else will take care of it for them. You should have seen my students' faces when I introduced the new curriculum to them. They were horrified that they had to be organized and take "SEVEN CLASSES IN ONE DAY!?"
I like seeing kids at DEFCON and hope Rootz continues to grow. I know I'll bring my future kids to con to participate in Rootz. As for the adult content in some contests, like Nikita said it is up to the parents to educate themselves and be aware of the what's going on around their child.
Anyways, I really enjoyed my second con this year. I liked the layout a lot better this year, especially spacing out the Contest and Vendor areas. I agree with some people that the cafe in the Chillout area should be open a little later. Sometimes it felt like a race to beat other attendees to a restaurant.Leave a comment:
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Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?
no insult taken. I've been coming to Defcon for a relatively few years and I believe 100% that the swag line has improved, since I've seen improvements in logistics of all areas in the few years I've been in attendance. I'm glad to hear that my observations are shared by others and I look forward to see how the awesome Defcon staff will improve things even more next year.Leave a comment:
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Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?
There are "adult" contests?
The only thing I have to add to the original comment, is in jest....OMG I know what you mean, I saw so many newbs running around the speaker tracks, it's much too advanced for them and it made me uncomfortable so I told the presenter to limit his speech to policy discussion or I was going to have to kick out all the newbs....
I'm not faulting you or hating on you for having your opinion, but I do want to take a moment to reflect on this subject from my perspective, since you brought it up.
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I know this isn't directed at me, but I'm going to address it as if I was speaking to the people who DID give me shit over the weekend. Please consider my reply is a generic YOU and not to the original poster.
Having some douchenozzle in the crowd thursday say that if "you can't leave your kid at home, don't come to DEF CON" seriously hurt my precious feelings and melted my ENTIRE Fucking snowflake. Had I seen who it was I would have asked him if he can't leave his sense of entitlement at home perhaps he should stay home. Sure, I got plenty dirty looks, from attendees and GOONS, the latter was pretty sickening to be honest. All because my son was in their general vicinity, minding his own business watching his curious George listening on his headphones, my kid just nerped people out. His very presence was just earth shattering OFFENSIVE to some people.
The only thing I can boil it down to is maybe because for some reason you think it's YOUR Responsibility to modify your behavior, begrudgingly i might add, and judge others for it. When you were not asked or implied to conform to ANY standards. That's just 100% anti-hacker. Shame on you. You pre-judged a lot of parents who had their kids at con, these same parents who are hackers and people just like you, because they had kids with them. In essence you put it upon yourself to take a responsibility of the by proxy parent or role model where it was not asked of you.
If you don't like kids. Don't have them. If you don't like being around kids, walk away, it's a free country (sort of) and i've earned my right to be there. It's not anyone's responsibility to keep kids away from you or the areas you are in to make you feel comfortable and the same can be said the other way around. It's the parents responsibility to use their judgement regarding their kids and I guarantee you they care more about their kids environment and safety then you ever will. Point blank, don't fuck with momma bear. If I think my kid, aged 2 or age 12 can handle a particular situation, then so be it. I know MY Child, you do not.
I was in the vendor area when a friend came up to me as I had my kid in a stroller and he was just standing there talking to me, he leaned in and said "I don't know if you want me around your kid right now, I've had a few drinks" My reply to that simply put "You're cool dude, it's fine" I appreciate him warning me, like I said, we are friends. but he's not driving him to the strip club, not babysitting him, and not asking him if he wants to go solder in the pool. In my mind I was sarcastically thinking it OMFG IS ITS CONTAGIOUS?!?! and I've thought that about every comment about "appropriateness" since. Just because YOU are wearing a tin foil bathing suit and getting spanked does not mean my kid is, your actions are not going to directly affect my child. You go have fun with that. As my kid gets older, and see's and understands these shenanigans with a less than naive eye, I will have to make tougher choices sure but I will also have to accept my own personal responsibility to raise my child to be a questioning and respectful member of society and know where his boundaries lay. As parents it's our job to teach our kids that there is a time and place for things and what they are and are not allowed to participate in. That's a normal expectation you should have of being a parent. Sadly, the rest of society has not caught up with that brilliant concept of "Mind your own business, it's not your kid". You've no right to judge parents unless they are causing serious issues of abuse to their spawn.
I may not LOOK Like I'm hovering over my child, but I am watching his personal space and safety like a hawk. I might let my kid burn off some energy running around, but the minute something becomes inappropriate, and I know it can happen in a moments notice, I will remove my child. The minute my kid becomes a disruption, I will remove him so he is not disturbing other people, out of respect. I was once a childless son of a bitch once too. Just like You have the choice to participate in something, I have the choice not to, and it's up to me to determine when I want to stay or go.
I am insanely protective of my child. INSANELY Protective. I also know what he can and cannot handle for his particular development bracket. I know what things he will understand, what may be too much, what situations I won't bring him to, etc. That's pretty much the same for most good parents. The presumption that you have to censor yourself, is all on you. If I was afraid of my son hearing the F-bomb I'd have my larynx removed once he was born, I curse like a sailor. I have no problem with people bringing their kids to DEF CON So long as they follow a few simple unwritten rules regarding exposing your kids to the public at large according to the "cult of the parent".
1. If your kid is being a douche, try to resolve it swiftly, if you cannot, Remove yourself from the situation and come back later.
2. Don't expect anyone to sympathize with you because you bred, it will never happen.
3. Please and Thank you's.
Society does not raise my kid for me, I do. As a Hacker Mom, I will not lie to my child, I will allow him to question his surroundings, I will allow him to safely fail and fail and fail and I will always be there but I will NOT HAND MY KIDS ACHIEVEMENTS In life. You have to be able to stand back say "this is how it's done, let me teach you, okay now you are on your own show me what you learned" Worse thing you can do is let your grow up with a false sense of entitlement, awarding them for flashy false achievements, especially now that I am old enough to recognize that is so much of what is already busted with people today. A false sense that the rest of the world must be revolving around their needs, adults these days are the worst offenders. As hackers, we ought to know better, it starts with teaching the kids what we know today and make a best effort to change the culture that we can't stand. Otherwise we end up in a world of surveillance and censorship and the same ole bullshit.
There is so much that kids can learn from participating and being included in this community, one day they will grow up with the power and the technology at their disposal to really make vast improvements over our generations downfall. right now, these kids, we are raising the "calvary" so to speak, and we have the ability to foster the hacker spirt within the little system we have going. I LOVE Seeing kids at DEF CON, especially the ones who are old enough to ask WHY and to LEARN the cool shit we are so selfishly squirreling away for another 0day.
That's my rant kids, take it or leave it.Leave a comment:
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Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?
I don't know how many years you've been coming, ( that's not an insult) but the swag line is LEAPS and BOUNDS better than it used to be. Trust. It's WAAAAAAAY better than it used to be. And don't worry, we had technical difficulties this year, but everything you mentioned we were planning on doing this year, and we know for a fact we will incorporate those i next year, and even better than that.Leave a comment:
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Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?
Yes.
Back at DEF CON 7, 8 or 9, there was a presentation by John Q. Newman on the erosion of constitutional rights, "for the children," (with a sarcastic emphasis on that quote, which was repeated over and over for each example of erosion.)
Summary: people that bring kids to places with adult content and demand or expect other people to moderate themselves are the kinds of people that want to impose restrictions on expression that they find disagreeable.
In that same presentation, John Q. Newman talked about how some right are not unlimited, "for example, you can't yell 'FIRE!' in a crowded theater, but being this was DEF CON, someone in the audience sarcastically yelled in monotone, "fire," and there was much laughter.
Additionally, with all of the repeated phrase, "for the children," for each example of erosion in rights, a member of the audience was becoming agitated and decided to inject some humor, so the next utterance of, "for the children," resulted in an audience members yelling, "FUCK THE CHILDREN." And people had an uneasy chuckle.
In the early years of Kid Con, we asked the oranizers to educate the parents that DEF CON is a convention for adults with adult content. They provided examples of adult content from drunken displays of nudity, to vulgar langauge, and even a history of public sex, even if those were mostly at the Alexis Park.... the point is, parents are to be fore-warned, and educated. if they have children that are mature enough to understand the content then good for them and their parents.
I really do not want to ever see DEF CON attendees being asked to moderate themselves EVER, because of kids or any other special interest group at con... free expression! Enjoy it! (I do. :-)Leave a comment:
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