Ideas, Notes, Feedback, & Planning

[L0g1c]

Incendiaries as well of course.

Deviant, I'm still good to RSO on Thursday assuming L0g1c can still do the badge run for me. I'll be camping as well.

Gigs if you work for Deviant or Deviant confirms your unneeded I'll have you covered for avoiding linecon 2015!

~L0g1c

[Gigs]

Incendiaries as well of course.

Deviant, I'm still good to RSO on Thursday assuming L0g1c can still do the badge run for me. I'll be camping as well.

[Deviant Ollam]

correct. the risk of fire is too great in the dry scrub lands.

[astcell]

No tracer ammo.

[TheWoodser]

Deviant Ollam,

I know that you mentioned "tracer" ammo in your original post.....What are the accepted "rules" on this?

[Modafinil]

1. Stated in another thread I'd like to see tables to the side/rear where gear (not firearms) could be placed and accessed during cease fires. This could be used to reload, safety gear (eyes/ears), water, tape, targets, ammo, etc.

Great idea. I usually use one of my cases for the same thing

2. Nets between lanes I'm not sure how they worked for the full auto's but I know the 50's didn't have any issues ripping the netting down in a single shot so...

This made things much more comfortable for me. Now if I can just be assigned a lane NOT next to the cannon......

3. Lane signage, perhaps we could print larger clear signage and hang them via something like this: http://guoze015.company.frbiz.com/i9...nu-holder.html

that looks like it would work a lot better than the current sheet covers that blow in the wind.

4. new idea: Would anyone be interested in trap shooting?

I'm sure my wife would love to.

[L0g1c10101]

1. Stated in another thread I'd like to see tables to the side/rear where gear (not firearms) could be placed and accessed during cease fires. This could be used to reload, safety gear (eyes/ears), water, tape, targets, ammo, etc.

2. Nets between lanes I'm not sure how they worked for the full auto's but I know the 50's didn't have any issues ripping the netting down in a single shot so...

3. Lane signage, perhaps we could print larger clear signage and hang them via something like this: http://guoze015.company.frbiz.com/i9...nu-holder.html



4. new idea: Would anyone be interested in trap shooting?

[blocked]

Was an RSO this past year and happy to do so again for DC23.

1) I would like to see better "marking" of lanes so that I am better aware of the shooter's experience.

2) If there are folks that don't have much experience, I'd prefer to group those lanes together. That allows us to focus RSO resources into that area. While I'm comfortable running multiple lanes of experience shooters, I'd like a more 1on1 focus for beginners.

3) I think it would be good to group the "don't photo me" folks also. Last year the "x" folks were spread around and kept getting caught in the background. Putting them at one end (maybe with a screen) could fix that issue.

4) We provide RSOs for the shoot, should we also make instructors available? I'm also a certified instructor and would be fine staffing a "beginner's tent". Shooters that aren't experienced/comfortable could come to that tent for a quick intro to safety/shooting.

Had a good time at the shoot last year and really looking forward to DC23.

[Modafinil]

Re: Ideas, Notes, Feedback, & Planning

Potential problems I see with this idea (and some proposed solutions):
1. Keeping track of hardware. The potential exists for someone to walk off with a firearm, especially if there are a lot of firearms on the table.

Solution: Limit the number of firearms donated for a given session. An arbitrary limit placed on donated hardware makes it easier to keep track of. Perhaps 2 handguns, 2 rifles, and a shotgun is a good place to start the discussion. If we make sure that there is only ever one person at the firing line at a time, it shouldn't be onerous to keep track of 5 items.

Yep. If we need to have more, then they should remain cased below the table.

2. Ammo. What if ammo runs out for a particular firearm? What if people prefer that only brass cased ammo runs in their firearm? What if a particular firearm doesn't cycle BRAND X? Etc, etc, etc.

Solution: Person donating firearm also provides ammo, RO collects donations to defer cost of ammo. (Solution introduces other problems, addressed further on) Additional problem of which ammo goes with which firearm...

And anyone lending/donating the firearm should expect that all kinds of crap might get pushed through their toys; I do.

3. Collection of donations. Assuming that each session will have at least two people donating firearms, donations will not necessarily be evenly split if one firearm is more popular than another. Someone has to keep track of which donations are for which firearm, which creates overhead.

Solution: Perhaps a box next to each firearm? Shooter drops donation in box, is then entitled to one magazine with that firearm. RO only needs to confirm that donation enters box, firearm owner retrieves donations for his firearm(s) at end of session.

Makes sense, or perhaps just having zip-lock baggies of ammo that people buy. I can bring the baggies, and people donating/selling/providing ammo for their gun can just bag them up and sharpie the price on each bag. Helps solve the issue in #2 above of finicky feeders and steel cases.

4. Need a dedicated RSO. I think this year the goal was 4 RSOs per shooting session. If we dedicate one of those 4, the workload on the other 3 goes up.

Solution: Not sure, because I don't know if we had "extra" ROs that were turned away, or if we were struggling to fill the necessary roles. I know that I would almost prefer to watch a new person shoot than to shoot myself, so I would happily volunteer my time to man a "lose your gun virginity here" booth, but others may feel differently.

Maybe shifts for volunteers; people can tag in and relieve the previous person. Might suck if nobody relieves you.

[flirzan]

Re: Ideas, Notes, Feedback, & Planning

This year the two Dutch visitors rented a lane and it sat empty for the entire first session on Thursday. When I brought some hardware over there and showed them the basics, they had a blast, offered to pay for everything and to clean up anything that needed to be cleaned. I enjoyed it, but between shirts and instruction, I probably only got to shoot about 20 rounds for the entire day. I'd be willing to stock that tent with some hardware if an RSO was dedicated to safe handling.

An interesting idea. I wound up pulling RO duty for three shifts, which means my guns sat there unfired for the majority of their time at the shoot. I would have been happy to let someone shoot them if a trusted person was there to watch over them while I was doing my RO thing.

To expand on modafnil's concept:

If we had a lane reserved for "non-free" or "I don't have any guns but I want to check this shit out" or whatever, with a dedicated RSO, then people who were volunteering (or just wanted to be nice), could drop some hardware off there for people to shoot. Anyone who wanted to could go to that lane and pay a few dollars for some ammo and one-on-one time with an RO.

Potential problems I see with this idea (and some proposed solutions):
1. Keeping track of hardware. The potential exists for someone to walk off with a firearm, especially if there are a lot of firearms on the table.

Solution: Limit the number of firearms donated for a given session. An arbitrary limit placed on donated hardware makes it easier to keep track of. Perhaps 2 handguns, 2 rifles, and a shotgun is a good place to start the discussion. If we make sure that there is only ever one person at the firing line at a time, it shouldn't be onerous to keep track of 5 items.

2. Ammo. What if ammo runs out for a particular firearm? What if people prefer that only brass cased ammo runs in their firearm? What if a particular firearm doesn't cycle BRAND X? Etc, etc, etc.

Solution: Person donating firearm also provides ammo, RO collects donations to defer cost of ammo. (Solution introduces other problems, addressed further on) Additional problem of which ammo goes with which firearm...

3. Collection of donations. Assuming that each session will have at least two people donating firearms, donations will not necessarily be evenly split if one firearm is more popular than another. Someone has to keep track of which donations are for which firearm, which creates overhead.

Solution: Perhaps a box next to each firearm? Shooter drops donation in box, is then entitled to one magazine with that firearm. RO only needs to confirm that donation enters box, firearm owner retrieves donations for his firearm(s) at end of session.

4. Need a dedicated RSO. I think this year the goal was 4 RSOs per shooting session. If we dedicate one of those 4, the workload on the other 3 goes up.

Solution: Not sure, because I don't know if we had "extra" ROs that were turned away, or if we were struggling to fill the necessary roles. I know that I would almost prefer to watch a new person shoot than to shoot myself, so I would happily volunteer my time to man a "lose your gun virginity here" booth, but others may feel differently.

I think that's a good start for now... Discussion?

[cthulhucalling]

Re: Ideas, Notes, Feedback, & Planning

The flag idea is good and goes with "proper" range rules.

One thing I'd like to add is having people ask before they shoot at someone else's targets. I brought my AR500 hog target out so the wife and I should shoot at it, and everyone seemed to love blasting at it with green tip milsurp ammo. The fact that the target was to the left of the staff tent means that people were starting to shoot at dangerous angles to hit it- a ricochet should have easily hit people over at the Run and Gun. Had anyone asked, I would have politely told them no, as the steel penetrator in that green tip stuff does horrible things to AR500 steel. It has more craters on it than the surface of the moon now. Thank $DEITY that I was RSO'ing the day someone brought out the .50 BMG...

On that note, I'd love to see a long range lane, but the site doesn't really appear to offer shooting past 100 yards.

This year the two Dutch visitors rented a lane and it sat empty for the entire first session on Thursday. When I brought some hardware over there and showed them the basics, they had a blast, offered to pay for everything and to clean up anything that needed to be cleaned. I enjoyed it, but between shirts and instruction, I probably only got to shoot about 20 rounds for the entire day. I'd be willing to stock that tent with some hardware if an RSO was dedicated to safe handling.

If Deviant want to go in that direction, I could certainly handle that... I should have all of my NRA instructor ratings by next year. With the concern over inexperienced people firing on full auto, it would probably be prudent having someone to make sure that the shooters are being safe.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Ideas, Notes, Feedback, & Planning

one thing we learned this year that was SO HELPFUL was having one of our yellow-vest staff be the person exclusively in charge of monitoring the clock and handling the regularly-scheduled cease-fires. next year we'll augment that with flags for lanes being cold or hot, a large clock (or clocks) showing the times marked off clearly, etc.

that person in the yellow who is in charge of monitoring the time and calling it will use an air horn (i LOVE the pump-up style... that's smart. i had shied away from the air horn this year because we didn't want to ship or fly with a compressed tank) and also making eyes/ears warning announcements.

[VøLT]

Re: Ideas, Notes, Feedback, & Planning

I would happily offer my services as an RSO, but I'm not certified in any kind (I'm a gunsmith drop-out(because of personal reasons I'd rather explain in a PM)), nor have I been to Defcon yet. So if I make it to DC23, and the shoot returns for DC24, then I'll happily be an RSO so you guys know me atleast

[Modafinil]

Re: Ideas, Notes, Feedback, & Planning

Lanes that Welcome Others
- how to designate

Maybe we should specify this when we register for a lane, and have it posted (or at least have the sign printed and handed out when we get our own badges)

- if you have no money you are an OBSERVER (maybe we need OBSERVER badges!)

I don't have a good handle on how many observers there were vs. registered shooters. I understand that shooters should register and pay to defray the costs, but I also like being able to include people that otherwise wouldn't shoot.

- who has guns for folk to try

Maybe also something to add to the Welcome Unfree/Military signs.

- who has guns for folk to try
- do not fucking shoot for free
- have cold cash in your outstretched hand before evening THINKING of asking to shoot.

Perhaps a default "price" per round? $.50 pistol / $1.00 Rifle? It doesn't fit everyone, and there will be outliers (.22LR, 50BMG), but I don't want to be quoting people prices, and I've found that most people are more than willing to pony up the money. Deviant has done a great job for the past couple of years telling people during the introduction/safety speech that shooting costs, and be prepared to offer money - I think that we (lane renters) haven't made it easy to quote/pay for shooting for people walking up to us.

astcell - your tent always gets swamped with people, and I know how crazy it is to squeeze my way in just to shoot off one round from the Serbu - Mine gets about that bad with the shirts and my group shooting what I bring, not even factoring in Un-Frees trying to shoot. Other than you posting price sheets, I don't see what else you could do.

Personally I don't mind spending the money on ammo for new shooters to experience it, and I expect to "donate" a couple hundred rounds to the cause. For me the trouble is the other part you mentioned - oversight and ensuring safe handling of the guns that I brought. I spend 10x more time on that than I do shooting.

This year the two Dutch visitors rented a lane and it sat empty for the entire first session on Thursday. When I brought some hardware over there and showed them the basics, they had a blast, offered to pay for everything and to clean up anything that needed to be cleaned. I enjoyed it, but between shirts and instruction, I probably only got to shoot about 20 rounds for the entire day. I'd be willing to stock that tent with some hardware if an RSO was dedicated to safe handling.

[seeess]

Re: Ideas, Notes, Feedback, & Planning

How about centralizing to a degree

I think something like that has been tried in the past (minus the selling back part). Deviant offered to buy and bring ammo for people that requested it. He fronted the cash, hauled it out, and either the people didn't show or they didn't buy the ammo and he got stuck with ammo he didn't want and a few hundred dollars less in cash.

If you can get people to front the money ahead of time you can probably find someone to buy it for you without too much of a problem.

And if I have any extra ammo I try to find a local that is willing to buy the ammo for like 50-75% of what I paid for it.

Centralizing that may be worth it