Anyone think kids get the raw end of the deal?

[begformore]

TURLOCK, Calif. - A Turlock High School senior has been arrested for allegedly hacking into the school district computer network and taking encrypted files. ... Police said the student had told his computer teacher about the system's flaws, and the teacher told the network administrator about them, but the administrator told the teacher that exploiting that security flaw was not possible, said Sheriff's Sgt. Adam Christianson.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryne...al/5209779.htm

It saddens me to see such bright young people being recommended for expulsion for doing things that the general public just doesn't fully understand.

[blackwave]

Re: Anyone think kids get the raw end of the deal?

Originally posted by begformore
It saddens me to see such bright young people being recommended for expulsion for doing things that the general public just doesn't fully understand.

No sympathy for this child, from what is said in the article:

"What he should have done is offer to sit down with the teacher and the administrator and demonstrate the hole with their permission," Christianson said.

is all need be said... why the child took it upon themselves to do so unauthorized is unknown, but that is certainly a step they should not have taken.

let the punishment fit the crime.

[begformore]

Re: Re: Anyone think kids get the raw end of the deal?

Originally posted by blackwave
... from what is said in the article:

True.

It just seems a little fishy since the teacher & administrator were made aware of the vulnerability beforehand and the student was told "that's impossible." Then, after the deed was done, the student reported his findings to the same teacher.

I know that the student should have "offered to sit down with the teacher and the administrator and demonstrate the hole with their permission," but I'm not so sure we can expect every teenager to "already know" this fact.

[blackwave]

Re: Re: Re: Anyone think kids get the raw end of the deal?

Originally posted by begformore
It just seems a little fishy since the teacher & administrator were made aware of the vulnerability beforehand and the student was told "that's impossible."

Saying something is impossible, or unhackable, is not an open invitation to find whatever means necessary to prove them wrong, especially on a system that is governed by people that don't know what they are talking about... since this will only cause ego issues and impending doom...

if the student felt the adminstration was being overall stupid about this and sincerely concerned they should have taken it above this admistrations heads ... in the long run due process is often what will work over breaking and entering.

[astcell]

Isn't this like the age old story of the shoplifter stealing from the storeand reasoning that he did it because he wanted to show the manager that it could be done?

[begformore]

Originally posted by astcell
Isn't this like the age old story of the shoplifter stealing from the storeand reasoning that he did it because he wanted to show the manager that it could be done?

Only if the shoplifter returned the stolen item, and the store manager already knew the shoplifter was going to pull something.

[begformore]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Anyone think kids get the raw end of the deal?

Originally posted by blackwave
Saying something is impossible, or unhackable, is not an open invitation to find whatever means necessary to prove them wrong, especially on a system that is governed by people that don't know what they are talking about... since this will only cause ego issues and impending doom...

if the student felt the adminstration was being overall stupid about this and sincerely concerned they should have taken it above this admistrations heads ... in the long run due process is often what will work over breaking and entering.

All very true. I guess what saddens me is that the administrator could have told the student to "Write a report on what is vulnerable and why." Then have the student present it to him and the teacher... Rather than telling the student, that it's not possible.

But I think I'm reading too much into this whole thing. I don't want to come across like I'm totally defending the illegal actions of the student.

I do think a *tiny* bit of guidance from the teacher would have gone a long way in this case. (ie. The *other* california student who got an A in some course for documenting a school system's vulnerability)

[blackwave]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anyone think kids get the raw end of the deal?

Originally posted by begformore
But I think I'm reading too much into this whole thing. I don't want to come across like I'm totally defending the illegal actions of the student.

Personally I didn't want it to come across to any anonymous forum browser (media, government entity, or just plain sheeple) that such actions are supported by anyone with common sense... :)

[astcell]

Common sense isn't so common...

Back when I was a kid the penguins would make me wrote an essay on what I did, today they call the cops. I think I learned lessons, the kids today probably just harbor resentment for it all.

[lei]

a play on assumtions

well, a large assumption was made here, they assume the kid who got into the system KNEW he could get into the system, the only way to know he could get into the system would be to exploit the problem in the server.

so who is goign to take anyone seriously when they say "hey sit down with me for a 18 hour hack-a-thon as i gain information on yoru system then expoit it to show you your mistake" and even then, if he logged in even once, they would catch that login from (probly his house) in the forseeable system audits, getting him in trouble anyways. so its a lose-lose situation for a guy who actaully did a rather white-hat-kind-gesture-samaritan action.

now... if this kid #1 moved data across insecure channels, #2 mishandled gained information on the system, or #3 realy did some damage. THEN he's a skivey little bastard that should learn to be more careful.

frankly I've done exactly what he did in the past, these admins are overreacting in the situation if the kid handled things professionaly.

[octalpus]

Originally posted by theMacPhreak
Haha
This reminds me of me! I am 17 and in my computer graphics class my teacher said that there was no way to hook up my iBook to the T1 w/o the district coming in and setting it up... next day I was on the network w/o and district help. I simply got some teacher guy to login as admin so I could "install photoshop", I took down the Ip/router/dns. All the computers in the room have all kinds of firewalls and filters, now i don't have to deal w/ that shit.

Yes, you've already proven you're an idiot. Go away and die, kthx.

[begformore]

I think the current trend is:

1) Student wants to do something/show a vulnerability.
2) Teacher tells student "that's not technically possible."
3) Student proves teacher wrong.
4) Student is punished.


What I think *should* happen:

1) Student wants to do something/show a vulnerability.
2) Teacher tells student "that's not LEGAL or ETHICAL - don't do it or you will be punished" or "Show me on this computer after school."
3) Student either obeys the law or educates the teacher.


*shurg*

[blackwave]

actually the student shouldn't be invloved in the scenario whatsoever.

He isn't on the payroll. Let the school suffer from the ignorance it enforces. the student at no time should cross the line into the realm of legality. All he can do is create a write-up and perhaps anonymously mail it to them.

[blackwave]

Originally posted by 0versight
Thats true, but thats a kid, Sure he should be disciplined, but not that rough, Its not like he gave somebody a black eye.

In a world of ego's black eyes come easier than expected. In another world perhaps it would have been overlooked and maybe progress where this kid could do this on the side professionally... but you see this is the real world, where laws apply to people... and unfortunately this kid was somewhere where he shouldn't have been: lawfully AND politically of course.

Originally posted by 0versight
I would expect a student from college to be expelled for something like this, not a child in high school when even though they are young adults, they still have alot to learn what is right from wrong.

Times are not how they used to be. With more technology comes more responsibility, more to account for. Who is going to account for it? ... what if he had taken down a hospital or accidentally shut down a bank?... maybe he proved there was a vulnerability, but it was not his place, and thus must be penalized.