REDHAT SUCKS!... WHY DOES IT SUCK?

[skroo]

Re: Re: Aaaaaaand...

Originally posted by apprentice
I was hoping to contact you by private message or direct email but I'm not able to. Can't say as I blame you. I'm greatful for the time and help you have extended to me.

No problem :)

I have Running Linux 3rd edition and learning the bash shell as well as the pocket reference for vi. I was more specifically interested in learning if the two Linux books at the Slack store were advisable for me at this point.

Good question. Answer: I don't know. Unfortunately, I haven't read any of the books they're offering, so I really can't tell you if they're any good or not. The Linux Reference Set looks like it covers a lot of decent ground, but having never seen it I can't speak for the quality of the content. Your call.

I'm mostly interested in working in CLI and learning the bash shell and vi.

That would be Slack. Not that X is unusable under it or anything, but it lends itself well to CLI work. I just find that it... Fits.

I'd like to learn to program as well sometime. I know my way around Win9x pretty well
and I've had extensive experience on Macs but that ended with System 7.5.3.

Heh, if it's 7.5.3 and you're doing *anything* with ethernet, upgrade to 7.5.5. I learned that one the hard way :)

[apprentice]

Re: Aaaaaaand...

Originally posted by skroo
Thank you. It is good to hear that.



OK. Not to put you off Slack (or Linux in general), but I want you to question your motives for wanting to use it. Not that I'm trying to put you off, but I want you to pick the right distro for you. Being aware that you're on dialup (which pretty much rules out conveniently downloading the ISO), hit up cheapbytes, who will send you the free OS of your choice for a couple of bucks to cover the cost of media and postage. Evaluate a few and see what works for you. Yeah, there's quite a few of us here who are fans of slackware and if that works for you, great - but at least see what else is out there.




Well, here's the rub.

Linux is one thing and one thing only: the kernel (and attendant modules) as per the sources from kernel.org. Pretty much everything else around it is distro-specific - be it from GNU, the Free Software Foundation, or third-party developers.

What I like about slack is that it adheres very strictly to the kernel.org sources, meaning that if you want to upgrade the kernel, you've got a much better chance of things subsequently working than under, say, RH. Not that it's a guarantee - but if you like to roll your own kernel and software (which I do), harmony via compatibility has a much greater chance of survival.

Slack ain't user-friendly, though - at least, not in the sense of a hand-holding RH-style setup (not that it's impossible, you just need to pay attention to what you're doing and be willing to experiment when stuff breaks in setup, especially early on). Stick with it though, and you'll probably like it.

In terms of books: O'Reilly's Linux In A Nutshell is probably the most useful out there. It's not too distro-specific, and teaches some very good basic- and intermediate-level Linux concepts. Yeah, there's gonna be some translation involved between what you're using and what they used in writing the book, but it should be pretty striaghtforward. Also, check that you have a relatively current version of the book. My last copy dates from around 1995-1996 (2nd or 3rd edition, if memory serves), and there's a whole mess of stuff that just ain't covered by it that's cropped up in the last few years.

And for future planning: if you ever intend to do anything with your *nix abilities in a professional sense, I'd recommend also getting familiar with Windows (it may suck, but it's a marketable skill - I spend about 85% of my time designing massive Active Directory domains, or rolling WINS-based NT4 networks over to AD), developing some familiarity with Solaris and AIX, and also getting to know MacOS a bit. While these may not necessariyl be things you *want* to do, they're good to have at least a working knowledge of on-hand.



No problem. It's good to speak with someone with a genuine interest.

I was hoping to contact you by private message or direct email but I'm not able to. Can't say as I blame you. I'm greatful for the time and help you have extended to me.

I have Running Linux 3rd edition and learning the bash shell as well as the pocket reference for vi. I was more specifically interested in learning if the two Linux books at the Slack store were advisable for me at this point.

I did order Slack with the Essentials book. I'm a little frustrated with RH8 that I have dual booting with XP home right now as Gnome allows me to do things that in the CLI would be illegal or ill-advised. This may be due to my lack of experience, I'm not sure. I'm mostly interested in working in CLI and learning the bash shell and vi. I'd like to learn to program as well sometime. I know my way around Win9x pretty well
and I've had extensive experience on Macs but that ended with System 7.5.3. I feel it only fair to let you know I'm mearly a hobbiest with a keen interst in computers and computer security specifically. At the age of 46 I'm working very hard to teach this old dog new tricks. Please feel free to contact me directly if you want to and have time for me. I will understand perfectly if you don't.

Thanks again for all your time and effort it is not lost on me and I do appreciate it very much.

[TwinVega]

Originally posted by Exodus
I don't care if Red Hat sucks (which I don't think it does), I would much rather have it then Windows.. I would download the ISO, but I'm on dial-up, having to connect and disconnect all the time.

If you're worried about restarting the download when you disconnect, then just get Download Accelerator and download little by little.

[Exodus]

I don't care if Red Hat sucks (which I don't think it does), I would much rather have it then Windows.. I would download the ISO, but I'm on dial-up, having to connect and disconnect all the time.

[skroo]

Aaaaaaand...

Originally posted by apprentice
Skroo,
Thanks very much for the detailed explenation! I appreciate the thought that went in to it and the time to type it.

Thank you. It is good to hear that.

I'll have to order Slack.

OK. Not to put you off Slack (or Linux in general), but I want you to question your motives for wanting to use it. Not that I'm trying to put you off, but I want you to pick the right distro for you. Being aware that you're on dialup (which pretty much rules out conveniently downloading the ISO), hit up cheapbytes, who will send you the free OS of your choice for a couple of bucks to cover the cost of media and postage. Evaluate a few and see what works for you. Yeah, there's quite a few of us here who are fans of slackware and if that works for you, great - but at least see what else is out there.

(Memo to people out there with broadband: linuxiso.org is the same stuff for free.]

Now another question from the newbie. At the Slack store there is the distribution and the Slack Essentials book. Do you guys recommend that book? Do you recommend the other books that are available?

Well, here's the rub.

Linux is one thing and one thing only: the kernel (and attendant modules) as per the sources from kernel.org. Pretty much everything else around it is distro-specific - be it from GNU, the Free Software Foundation, or third-party developers.

What I like about slack is that it adheres very strictly to the kernel.org sources, meaning that if you want to upgrade the kernel, you've got a much better chance of things subsequently working than under, say, RH. Not that it's a guarantee - but if you like to roll your own kernel and software (which I do), harmony via compatibility has a much greater chance of survival.

Slack ain't user-friendly, though - at least, not in the sense of a hand-holding RH-style setup (not that it's impossible, you just need to pay attention to what you're doing and be willing to experiment when stuff breaks in setup, especially early on). Stick with it though, and you'll probably like it.

In terms of books: O'Reilly's Linux In A Nutshell is probably the most useful out there. It's not too distro-specific, and teaches some very good basic- and intermediate-level Linux concepts. Yeah, there's gonna be some translation involved between what you're using and what they used in writing the book, but it should be pretty striaghtforward. Also, check that you have a relatively current version of the book. My last copy dates from around 1995-1996 (2nd or 3rd edition, if memory serves), and there's a whole mess of stuff that just ain't covered by it that's cropped up in the last few years.

And for future planning: if you ever intend to do anything with your *nix abilities in a professional sense, I'd recommend also getting familiar with Windows (it may suck, but it's a marketable skill - I spend about 85% of my time designing massive Active Directory domains, or rolling WINS-based NT4 networks over to AD), developing some familiarity with Solaris and AIX, and also getting to know MacOS a bit. While these may not necessariyl be things you *want* to do, they're good to have at least a working knowledge of on-hand.

Thanks for your time and patience.

No problem. It's good to speak with someone with a genuine interest.

[skroo]

Firstly, cheers for the comments. Glad y'all liked what I had to say. Next...

Originally posted by GodMinusOne
that's what i'd do, but it isn't for my computer. my friend wants to install slackware on his computer, however he doesn't feel like making a separate linux partition, and BigSlack will run on a FAT partition...i told him i'd ask around to see if it runs well

Avoid. Avoid avoid avoid avoid avoid. This uses what is known as a loopback filesystem, meaning that it installs itself in a directory under some other OS' filesystem, effectively. Unless you have a UMSDOS-capable kernel, it's gonna mean pain - and even if you *do* have one, it doesn't mean that there won't be FS troubles.

I'll avoid the technical details for now (if anyone's interested, I'll touch on them later), but suffice to say that the convenience of being able to have a single-boot machine that can disable one OS and run the other presents significant challenges and problems, especially if the host OS is Windows. I speak from development experience on this.

Here's the key to successfully dual-booting: install Windows first. It likes being on the primary partition, and doesn't play nicely if you try to make it do otherwise. Install your subsequent OSes after that, and use their boot loaders, not a third-party app such as Partition Magic. Again, voice of experience on this.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Chris
The book is worthwhile for a newbie. It is not a detailed tech explanation of the OS, but has installation tips, package listings etc. I think it may be online though in pdf or html format.

Yeah...the book is online: http://www.slackware.com/book/

[GodMinusOne]

Originally posted by ashman
Linux on a FAT partition... *shudder* No file security options at all. I'd attempt to convince your friend he'd be better off bothering with a separate partition. ;)

I'll be installing it for him anyway, so I'll just make the partition; he'll have no idea what I'm doing, and in the long run that seems like the best option. Thanks

[TwinVega]

Originally posted by apprentice
I assume you are asking me since I mentioned ordering it. I would download but I'm still using 56k dial-up. I also am comforted by the fact that if anything bad happens I will have media around to redo things.

I have horrd dialup as well, I just go to one of my friends house and download it there, then burn the iso onto a cd. But this may not be the case for everybody, I just figured I would mention it.:D

[apprentice]

Originally posted by TwinVega
Why not just download Slack?

I assume you are asking me since I mentioned ordering it. I would download but I'm still using 56k dial-up. I also am comforted by the fact that if anything bad happens I will have media around to redo things.

[ashman]

Originally posted by GodMinusOne
that's what i'd do, but it isn't for my computer. my friend wants to install slackware on his computer, however he doesn't feel like making a separate linux partition, and BigSlack will run on a FAT partition...i told him i'd ask around to see if it runs well

Linux on a FAT partition... *shudder* No file security options at all. I'd attempt to convince your friend he'd be better off bothering with a separate partition. ;)

[GodMinusOne]

Originally posted by TwinVega
Why not just download Slack?

that's what i'd do, but it isn't for my computer. my friend wants to install slackware on his computer, however he doesn't feel like making a separate linux partition, and BigSlack will run on a FAT partition...i told him i'd ask around to see if it runs well

[TwinVega]

Why not just download Slack?

[murakami]

Skroo,

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

OK, I'll join the RH sucks bandwagon. It seems like NS7 and Mozilla cause it to slow down and page like a mofo. Sucks when all your display is on a browser. I'll try moving to slackware when I finish my current project.

Has anyone tried Crossover Office on slackware?

[GodMinusOne]

has anyone on here used BigSlack?