DefCon Noob - what to expect when I arrive

[indygeek]

I read somewhere of long line and waiting to get admission/badge. What should I expect to be doing once I arrive in Vegas?

[astcell]

Watch the documentary here. www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ctQOmjQyYg

[Vod1]

Dark Tangent promises to fix the waiting in line issue this year. Not sure how that is going to work. The problem last year was that everyone thought that they needed to be in line first thing in the morning on Thursday to get a badge. The real badges lasted until late into the afternoon so everyone didn't need to get there that early (when they run out of 'real' badges they start printing paper badges). HOWEVER, I started in line at 9:30 -10am on Thursday was still in line when DC101 started at Noon. If you aren't familiar, DC101 is a introduction talk that is a blend of welcome to Defcon for the complete NOOB, Ice breaker to start the Con off right, and some very beginner hacking topics all rolled into a few hour talk. So while DT and the Goons were trying to tell people to come back later to buy their badges they couldn't get the masses thru the line in time for the first events that required badges.

[indygeek]

Many thanks for the advice and assistance.

[Pwncess]

The lines at the Rio were hit or miss for me, at DC20 I walked right up to the counter, no line. Last year we were in line for hours, the years in between was something in between. It will be interesting to see how it works out at the new place. The lines aren't really terrible though, I like to think of them as an opportunity to meet new friends.

[sainate]

I'm curious on this as well. I watched the video and saw folks getting there the *night* before. My flight arrives late afternoon the fifth and I had planned on heading up to the room, catching some z's and hopping in line as soon as I saw it start expand. Would be curious to hear some DefCon pros input and thoughts though. Definitely wanting to catch DefCon 101 and *really* hoping for a badge.

[L0rd Midnight]

I've been researching this topic for a while now. Seems the things to expect would be the normal travel stuff, you'll need to talk to people, turn your phone off, and bring a really long Ethernet cable.
Don't hid in the shadows, ask questions, but don't ask questions, and try new things.

[TheCotMan]

History of badges is wide, and varied.

At the earliest DEF CON, badges were paper, usually laminated. Some of these even had space for attendees to write their name on a badge.

The location of badge sales would often not be announced ahead of time, or what was announced as a location would change, and sales would often not start on-time. Some of these also included just one person accepting money and providing badges. There was no partition separating attendees from seller in the sale of badges. (Maybe only a card table and a cash box is all there would be.)

Things have changed many times with the sales of badges. When lines started getting longer, maintenance of people in lines became necessary. The concept of departments was not rigid, so any volunteer/goon would help where help was needed. The same people helping to deal with lines may also be working with speakers, or on networking, or with the hotel on logistics. As specialization became increasingly necessary, a more hierarchical structure emerged. The eventually included specialization of badge sales to have its own planning, and considerations. At one point, people outside of DEF CON were hired to sell badges (Badge Grannies, for example.) As badge sales change hands, there is often a learning curve for the new person. Any hand-off can have its bumps along the way. Old lessons forgotten, must be re-learned by the new group that manages the process. (Now, the style of hand-off usually includes the old department heads sticking around as a kind of consultant and let the new person run things, but offer suggestions or advice as needed, to help smooth the transition.)

Some points of consideration when looking to get in line early:
* Just because you arrive early, does not mean you will avoid getting paper badges: Like with any convention, large amounts of stuff must be shipped for distribution. This requires planning, and staging, and understanding when things will arrive, and in what order. It requires expert logistical coordination to ensure that as things arrive, there are people to take them to where they need to be, or else the Shipping/Receiving space will become too full to accept any new items, blocking the whole process of con setup. To help with this, the massive job of boxing up items at point of departure determines the order of unloading, and processing. The staging of loading/unloading is important to meeting demand of departments "just in time."
The people that work with the hotel are usually the earliest. NOC people setup really early, and radio support is also likely to be early. Vendor goons often start prep of the vendor space a day before con, and must work with vendors to deal with their equipment arriving. Is a car needed on the vendor floor? Maybe it is needed on the Contests & Events floor? Conests/Events, and Villages also have their setup, and they each have people that need to prepare their spaces for when the con opens, so their stuff needs to be moved as it arrives. If any one group does not have their stuff up and ready to go, and be received, it can slow the whole process.
Mixed into all of this chaos, are "DEF CON Badges." in the past, the boxes that contain DEF CON badges have been misplaced, or temporarily lost, or were locked away by a goon, but they are sleeping a few hours after being up for more than 24 hours. Cash is needed to make change, and access to cash boxes is limited until sales begins. Maybe cash for making change is delayed. When things like this happen, badge sales are delayed. Another option in these cases? If badges are missing, sell paper badges.
There are many reasons for people first in line to not get "real" badges or see the time for sales opening, delayed.

* What has happened when people received paper badges? Can they get a "real" badge? Technically, paper badges *are* real badges. The core of the complaint here is a desire to have an electronic badge (if that is what they are during that DEF CON) or another style of non-paper badge. This is understandable. With Joe Grand having made electronic badges, sometimes with games and LoST[boy] having made badges (electronic and non-electronic) are parts of contests of puzzles/games to solve riddles and use technical skills to find answers, there is a sense of "being left out" when their badge is just a piece of paper, and offer little to no help in the contest, and does not make them feel they are contributors. Other people view the expensive price in a badge only to have a piece of paper while others have a "real" badge as a bit of a let-down. And others view them as a kind of souvenir to show other people, "I've been to DEF CON," without them saying, "That? You could have printed that piece of paper on your color printer. LIAR!"
In the past, when paper badge sales has happened, if "real" badges are later found, people are sometimes given the opportunity to turn their paper badge in for a "real" badge. Announcements for this were once hard to learn about, but now with twitter and facebook, consider following DEF CON on FB and @_defcon_ on twitter to get announcements about these, while you are at con.
(Point of culture: People that have been to many DEF CON often question priorities when people complain about badges. A point of condemnation in observing this complaint is sourced from people not recognizing that DEF CON is not about a badge, but about learning new things, and meeting people. They may say, "tourists/conumer-whores care about 'stuff'; hackers care about knowledge, information, and skills. Which one are you?" A useful counter-point? When has another person's opinion of you stopped you from wanting to satisfy your passion? Like what you like. Enjoy what you enjoy. :-)

* So, should I show up early if there is no guarantee I will get a "real" badge? That is up to you. Some people start in line the night before, and use it as an opportunity to socialize with others, but if you do this, and do not sleep, you start off your first DEF CON day (the next day) short on sleep. You can work out shifts, taking turn waiting in line. (One person can buy many badges at once.)

* When does the line start getting really long? That has changed a lot, and can change quickly. It is a multi-person game, and all players are reactive to new information. If I write that around 2 hours before sales of badges start, the line starts getting really long, then more people will show up 3 hours before badge sales start. If someone starts a rumor on twitter or other social media that half the badges were stolen by Nigerian Ninja Princes from China, speaking Canadian, eh? and people believe it, a line could explode in length quickly with little warning. Understanding this, the line generally starts to grow quickly within hours of badge sales opening, but this is throttled by the time badge sales open. So, if badge sales are set to open at noon, then lines can start to grow long starting at 8 or 9am, but if badge sales open up at 8am, then lines could grow long stating at 6am.

* So, when should I stand in line? It depends on many things. What is your priority? If you want a "real" badge, you have no guarantee of having one if you are first in line, but if you spend 4-6 hours in line (4 hours waiting for sales to open and "?" hours to get to the sales window, that is time you are NOT spending at DEF CON events.
*** In the past, badge sales start on Thursday, but many villages and talks can also start on Thursday -- because of this, having to have a badge to see much of this has not been required *ONLY* on Thursday. Look for announcements on this. Ask around on site. 4 hours learning something new in one or more village may be a better use of your time. Some people found this worked well for them. They avoid the line, visit the villages and spaces without a badge, then 1 or 2 hours after sales of badges open, they go to get in "line" (when there is no line) and get a badge right-away.

* What did Dark Tangent mean at the close of DEF CON last year when he said, "would you like some badge with that?" (or something like this) as a hint about sales of badges for DC 23? I don't know and even if I did know, I don't know. Maybe it means something. Maybe it was a clue for a contest for this year. Maybe it was a plan that fell-through. Maybe it was something that is going to happen. Maybe all of these. Maybe, none of these.

* OK. What would you do? It depends. Is it the "me" that did not know anyone at con, or "me" now? If it was the "me" that did not know anyone, would it now or back in the 90's? If today, and I know now what I didn't then, but did not know anyone? I think I would find knowledge more important than a "real" badge, so I would opt for the "visit all the Thursday stuff that did not require a badge," first, then after the line died down, go buy a badge without waiting in line. If badge sales open on Wed when there were no events, I would show up Wed to hang-out in line-con and meet other people.

* What do you know? Very little. I know you should consider the above, and then weigh your wants to plot a path for yourself. What works for me, may not work for you. Maybe having a "real" badge is a great priority for you. Maybe you want to take part in the Badge/Mystery/Riddle contest (as it is a way to meet many people if you do not know anyone, and encourages you to work with a team.) Maybe learning to pick locks is more important than which badge you get? Maybe you want to learn more about soldering, or Privacy & Crypto?

Hopefully you have enough information to make your own decision on what you want to do with getting your badge,and when you think you should get in line.

HTH,
-Cot

[sainate]

"because of this, having to have a badge to see much of this has not been required *ONLY* on Thursday" Made my day!! I'm trying to get my bearings on what is when and where and will look to see what villages on Thursday (if any) that I'm interested in will allow entrance without a badge. Plan a will be, if there is no line, to buy a badge (ideally a 'real', potentially hackable badge but, if not, a 'real' Defcon badge that will get me into villages) and plan b will be to plot a course through the villages that I want to see that don't require a badge until the line dies down. One big concern (that seems to have been addressed earlier by Vod1) was DC 101, which I definitely want to visit.

[TheCotMan]

"because of this, having to have a badge to see much of this has not been required *ONLY* on Thursday" Made my day!! I'm trying to get my bearings on what is when and where and will look to see what villages on Thursday (if any) that I'm interested in will allow entrance without a badge. Plan a will be, if there is no line, to buy a badge (ideally a 'real', potentially hackable badge but, if not, a 'real' Defcon badge that will get me into villages) and plan b will be to plot a course through the villages that I want to see that don't require a badge until the line dies down. One big concern (that seems to have been addressed earlier by Vod1) was DC 101, which I definitely want to visit.

I wrote that in the past-tense (has not been required) and I do not set any policies at DEF CON. I have asked people that would know, to see if that will be the case this year. I've also asked for it to be added to the FAQ, as it comes up every year. Someone should reply to this thread when we know if this Thursday events exception will be in place this year, too.

HTH,
-Cot

[sainate]

I wrote that in the past-tense (has not been required) and I do not set any policies at DEF CON. I have asked people that would know, to see if that will be the case this year. I've also asked for it to be added to the FAQ, as it comes up every year. Someone should reply to this thread when we know if this Thursday events exception will be in place this year, too.

HTH,
-Cot

TheCotMan, no worries at all, I won't hold you to it :) Just happy that may be an option. Will look for someone 'in the know' to post. Thank you again for the quick follow-up!

[qumqats]

. . . snip . . . I'm trying to get my bearings on what is when and where and will look to see what villages on Thursday (if any) that I'm interested in will allow entrance without a badge.

My recollection is that some/many/most of the Villages are still setting up on Thur, so you may not get much Village activity ( or am I thinking of the Contest area? ). But at least you can get a feel for the layout, and start networking with other DCers.
Enjoy!

[astcell]

If the line is going to be hours long maybe we can make it fun. We need a Monty Hall type of person with gimmicky prizes and a few hacker type trivia questions. Maybe GMark? He can go up the line and toss out questions like at HJ, the winner gets a t-shirt of other prize. Definitely a niche task, like a cross between a rodeo clown and an escort. Think it'll help?

[Pwncess]

FWIW I have heard in previous years that a badge was not required to see Thursday talks (heard both on the forum and by some goons) but other goons were not aware of this and we were not allowed to see talks without a badge. The point being - Don't count on it.

[TheCotMan]

DISCLAIMER: I do not run ANY of these spaces. Nothing I write here is authoritative for ANY space. This information is a best-effort with the information I have. If a Goon from any of these departments disagrees with any of this content, their information is correct, and mine is incorrect.

Topic: Thursday and where you need a Human Badge for access...

I asked people that would know what the present plans for DEF CON 23 might be with respect to where you will need a DEF CON badge on Thursday, and have some answers.

1) VENDOR area is closed for setup on Thursday, so the question about badge access to vendor area with or without a badge on Thursday does not matter: they are closed to Humans. You need to be a Vendor or Vendor goon to get in on Thursday. ***

2) CONTESTS / VILLAGES / EVENTS / ENTERTAINMENT: It looks like Contests/Villages/Events/Entertainment (CVEE) will be using Thursday for setup during the day (just like vendors) so access to CVEE spaces will likely be restricted to CVEE goons and people with CVEE badges. If you are running a CVEE, then you *should* have a CVEE badge, and have or soon have a procedure on how you will validate yourself as who you claim to be to gain access to any CVEE space on Thursday. If you are a human, and made arrangements to help with a CVEE, then contact the person running the CVEE on how you will gain access to a CVEE space and help. ***

3) SWAG (This is specific to the DEF CON Swag booth which has historically been separate from the vendor area) : Unknown -- waiting for official word. In the past, it has sometimes been outside a badge-controlled space and separate from vendor space. You'll have to wait and see what happens this year. Maybe someone will reply with the details on this.

4) SPEAKER TRACK: explicit confirmation -- You WILL need a badge for all speaker tracks on Thursday. If you are a speaker, you should have or should get a procedure on what you need to do to get where you need to be.

5) ENTERTAINMENT: (outside the official DEF CON entertainment) If it is outside DEF CON controlled spaces, then it is up to the people running those private events to decide what badges will be needed, if any.

6) CHILL OUT SPACES: Not yet certain. Waiting for details. It may be different for each space. (Like some open, and others not open.)

*** Each kind of goon has different responsibilities to allow each to focus on their specializations. Please do not expect a RedShirt Goon to be your messenger service, and go track someone down in a space you do not have access so that you can gain access. It is your job to plan ahead and make arrangements on how you will communicate with each other to help volunteer. If you have questions, please try the info desks, as that is the specialization of Information goons. If you see an emergency or have a worry about the safety of a person or people at DEF CON, then of all the goons, a RedShirt is probably the one to talk to and get help. If you are a speaker, and have a question about speaking (Video support, microphones, chairs, etc.) contact a speaker goon. If you have questions about a contest, contact the person running the contest on how you should gain access to a space you think you should have access. You'll get best results when contacting a goon that specializes in the the domain you need help. :-)