"New posts since last visit"?!

[KeLviN]

also interested. Happy to help. I want to promote the forums at DC this year but am afraid of sending people to a forum with software that doesn't feel familiar to visitors .... Don't even know if anything can be done...

[astcell]

I clicked the SLV-TEST-X button just now and it listed all the posts since March 3rd. Does it go back a month? Anyhow it is not a replacement for the "new posts since last visit" button at all. I even searched for SLV-TEST-X and got zero results. Not that forum searching was ever worthwhile.

So, Cot, what would it take to get the "New posts since last visit" button back? A petition? $1,000 to the programmer? New forum software?

[KeLviN]

After watching my habits on other forums this last week, the first and only button i use is 'posts since last visit'. Obviously security is a priority for DCF, but i think people have mentioned that not having it kills the experience. i'm still trying the test-x button.

And the culture is the draw. that's why critical mass is so important.

[astcell]

I suppose if someone wants to know how ot hack something, or what 2600 means, or what defcon is, they can always use google. And google may not always bring folks here. When I started attaneind Defcon google was just another seach engine, like Ask Jeeves or Dogpile. Yahoo was still king. There is no way we can compete with google.

[TheCotMan]

I like the SLV-TEST-X button. It let's me see an intro of the post then I can right click on "GO TO POST" an dopen in new window, and go from there. Same navigation to see new FB posts.

I remember now, the link we had before was for "Unread Posts* and was valid per user. So, when you clicked it, local cookies on your computer would keep track of posts you have and have not read, then use that to help with display of those posts. Threads would also appear in bold until you read all new posts in any thread. You could also inform the forum that you have read everything you want to read, and it would make everything as read.

The new software moved it to "recent activity" in the last 24 hours. It appears to rely on web browser features on which URL you have visited and which you have not. The new software forced-enabled "Search Engine Optimization" which manufactures URL with thread subjects, to add more keywords to URL. The older method of thread URL listed by thread ID is no longer supported. This means moving a thread from one forum to another can cause it to appear to have never been read.

With the old software, you could be away for 3 weeks, return, and see all activity since you last visited, whether you logged-in 3 weeks ago and returned, or logged out 3 weeks ago and then logged in again -- so long as it was with the same device, or a sync of unread posts was made with the forum DB.

None of these searches really give us what we had. I found some threads on the vendor's support space asking for this feature from the vendor, and no follow-up. For those that linked to their forum, on visiting their forum now, I see it is running on other software. It seems many forum admins left this vendor and moved to another. Our primary interest in forum software is security. If you find another vendor of forum software with the features we want, and a good security record, please make a suggestion.

I remember when wardriving was the in thing, I got a custom license plate, hooked up a HP Jornada, wifi card, extermal antenna, and a GPS, with nullmodem connections and a plethora of wires, and drive a few hundred miles gathering AP information. Blackwave was huge on this too, and it was something we all enjoyed, just for one example. Blackwave dropped out, I got sent overseas, a few other people drifted off... are we saying that a half dozen people were the glue to this place? I'd say no, but another forum I am on had one very popular member die from cancer and the place has been a ghost town since.

Activity can spawn more activity, but without a reason to return to a site daily, people won't. Having specialists with interests in a variety of topics can bring people together for discussions on each topic. Way back when, a majority of contests were run by, or supported by people that were somewhat active on the forums. The forums were a place to go to get answers about DEF CON and contests, or events, and once people were here, some joined in the social parts of the forums. Now, as hand-offs of contests, events, social-gatherings occur, the new owners of contests, events, parties, etc. have their own preferred methods of communication. They tend to be younger, and use the tools they know, and this does not include the forums.

Forums may not be the "in" thing, as evidence by the failure to support or upgrade the software by the authors. But there is nothing that has replaced it.

For announcements (not detailed discussion) twitter has displaced forums. With twitter, people can delete their own tweets whenever they want, and they can link to their own sites. I see a lot more "defcon" activity on twitter than I do on the forums.

We need to stop worrying about what happened and make this place happen again. Tell folks about the place, post here, link here, and refer people to here. Bring contests here, mention the site at defcon (duh). What happened to the slogan contest? Those were widly peopular.

If we can know why something is not being used, then we can try to address the issues.

I've posted links to threads with announcements about contests, events parties in defcon forums by using twitter, and this has generated traffic, with people visiting threads to read, but not post replies. I've done the same for technical discussions, but again, it leads to traffic and visits, but little in the way of replies. I can see more visits when promoting forum discussions, but little new activity.

Forums have a place. But when all you know is FB and Twitter and Gmail, you are wearing blinders. Ello is dead before is started, MeWe is a joke, Google+ petered out quickly. If you build it they will not come. You have to show them why they should be here.

Think back to being a hacker. When you chose to visit an online place, why did you go? It was not for the culture. It was for information. The information may be entertainment, education, or help with understanding. You generally had a question, and looked for an answer. The question may have been, "where can I download porn" or "what contests are happening at DEF CON? or something else.

So, the question back to you: why should people come to the forums what would bring them here to learn *and* participate, and what can "we" do to provide that?

[astcell]

I like the SLV-TEST-X button. It let's me see an intro of the post then I can right click on "GO TO POST" an dopen in new window, and go from there. Same navigation to see new FB posts.

Yes calguns is huge, too huge, and there are spinoffs as a result. And there are spinoffs of those too. I have seen some very active groups and some strangle themselves.

Some of the dying groups are because of internal political struggles. One guy thinks he is an expert (maybe he is) and the newbs want him out, and he is out. Other newbs don't search back to the date the forums were made for information and simply ask, and immediately get shot down and banned.

I remember when wardriving was the in thing, I got a custom license plate, hooked up a HP Jornada, wifi card, extermal antenna, and a GPS, with nullmodem connections and a plethora of wires, and drive a few hundred miles gathering AP information. Blackwave was huge on this too, and it was something we all enjoyed, just for one example. Blackwave dropped out, I got sent overseas, a few other people drifted off... are we saying that a half dozen people were the glue to this place? I'd say no, but another forum I am on had one very popular member die from cancer and the place has been a ghost town since.

Forums may not be the "in" thing, as evidence by the failure to support or upgrade the software by the authors. But there is nothing that has replaced it.

We need to stop worrying about what happened and make this place happen again. Tell folks about the place, post here, link here, and refer people to here. Bring contests here, mention the site at defcon (duh). What happened to the slogan contest? Those were widly peopular.

Forums have a place. But when all you know is FB and Twitter and Gmail, you are wearing blinders. Ello is dead before is started, MeWe is a joke, Google+ petered out quickly. If you build it they will not come. You have to show them why they should be here.

[KeLviN]

Can you think of any spaces where forums are still popular for social interaction, and not just "tech support"?

Your feedback is welcome too on the "SLV-TEST-X" (Since Last Visit Test X) added , which uses the "lastVisit" item, which appears to be "Since Last Login" not "visit".

2nd amendment forums are pretty busy. Calguns.net is busy. I think Forums just have a higher critical mass than they used to.

I'm trying out the testX button. I'll let you know!

[Deviant Ollam]

i used to be exceedingly active on the DEF CON Forums. i am not so much anymore, and the lack of the "new posts since last visit" feature is a huge part of that.

the "new posts" feature (far left of the menu bar) seems to do /something/ in that vein, but it's less than ideal.

1. it often seems to have threads that /don't/ have new posts (or even threads showing as all read already.

2. the results list doesn't show which sub-forums contain these entries. i wish i could easily see if a "thread with new posts" was in, say, the DEFCON Shoot sub-forum (which i'd want to read) or if it's in some regional DC Group sub-forum for eastern europe (which i probably don't want to take the time to read)

[qumqats]

Ok, so people aren't using the forum, but I don't see that that traffic has gone elsewhere, i.e. to Facebook/redit/twitter, so where have people gone?
Where are newbies to defcon going to learn about defcon?
Or are they just showing up and winging it?

[TheCotMan]

People are not useing facebook in lieu of the DC forums. There used to be HUNDREDS of posts here per day. People have just acquired other priorities.

Jobs. Kids. Cars. Ex spouses. Drama. But the crowd of hackers is increasing as evidenced by the defcon population. The forums were big when 6,000 peole atended defcon, why are they not twice as big now?

Forums have become a bit of a generational divide, like laptops/notebooks vs. tablets. Visit a college campus. Outside CS, tablets and smartphones (with or without external keyboard) are often used more often than laptops, or notebook. Same can be found in VC meetings. Those with laptops/notebooks are old. Those using tablets are young.

So, the older kids got old and had other priorities. Why don't people in the new crowd use forums? Best guess? They are using Facebook, and social networks where all their friends can be found. There is a greater stickiness with existing social networks. Post an amusing picture for your friends to see, and you get immediate responses. Post something on some forum, that none of your friends are presently on, and then what? Who do they care more about? Their friends or strangers? Which is easier? Stick to a comfort zone, or hang out with strangers? Time is finite.

To help address some of this, work was done to support "mobile styles" so the forums will work on mobile devices, but their use is still not as intuitive as the imgur app, or facebook app.

Kelvin, I asked for the same button a while back, nothing came of it. I am sure I miss posts as a result. And the fact that the vendor will not support it sounds little cheap... are we not hackers, coders, programmers? Can we not add inone simple button ourselves?

Or can we search by date and time to find changes since then?

It looks like one of the recent updates added an option "lastVisit" instead of date. I've included an example test. Let's see how buggy it is. In the "NAV-bar" locate "SLV-TEST-X" and see how it works for you. It is not working as I would expect it. It appears to treat "lastVisit" as "last time logging in" not really "visit". This might work for people that logout when they leave, and then login when they return, but this is not like the older, cookie-based selection of "show me posts I have not read since my last visit".

I hate that this is a ghost town.

I don't know of many hacker groups that still have forums. 2600 abandoned their a long time ago. Several DCG that were running their own (neg9, and others) abandoned theirs too. Can you think of any spaces where forums are still popular for social interaction, and not just "tech support"?

CM, thanks for the responses! I feel like the DC forums should be hoppin'..... I think this situation can be upgraded. lemme' work on it......

Your feedback is welcome too on the "SLV-TEST-X" (Since Last Visit Test X) added , which uses the "lastVisit" item, which appears to be "Since Last Login" not "visit".

[KeLviN]

CM, thanks for the responses! I feel like the DC forums should be hoppin'..... I think this situation can be upgraded. lemme' work on it......

[astcell]

People are not useing facebook in lieu of the DC forums. There used to be HUNDREDS of posts here per day. People have just acquired other priorities.

Jobs. Kids. Cars. Ex spouses. Drama. But the crowd of hackers is increasing as evidenced by the defcon population. The forums were big when 6,000 peole atended defcon, why are they not twice as big now?

Kelvin, I asked for the same button a while back, nothing came of it. I am sure I miss posts as a result. And the fact that the vendor will not support it sounds little cheap... are we not hackers, coders, programmers? Can we not add inone simple button ourselves?

Or can we search by date and time to find changes since then?

I hate that this is a ghost town.

[TheCotMan]

Where the hell did the 'posts since last visit' button go? This place is unusable without that.

It's the most used button in the history of forums.

edit: i guess i don't need it. Ive read all 2 posts made today... good talk.

When the forum vendor stopped support the older version, and stopped patching bugs, we were forced to upgrade.

The new software does not have that as a feature, and vendor has resisted requests.

I investigated what would be needed to support it, and the overhead to the DB would be a bit costly in resources required. At the time, the forums had a higher latency because the new software required more resources than the older forum software.

It's not the same and they don't work as well, but there are "Today's Posts" and "This Week Activity" buttons on top.

Yep, those have become what the vendor provided as a replacement for "since last visit" -- something that does not rely on cookie-based content on visit to display what posts have had updates per user.

The fact that looking at a weeks worth of activity is a useful option should be a sign that forum activity is way too low....

People have not been using the forums much. People rely on established social networks like FaceBook. There is no need to tolerate different views on a shared public forum, when you can choose to follow only people that agree with you and unfollow anyone that introduces ideas that conflict with your own beliefs, thoughts, or opinions.

I officially demand the return of the "posts since last visit button' and the removal of the 'this week activity' button. I also want to know why i (we) have a bar scale under my (our) name. That's gotta go too.

edit: oh, it's a reputation bar? Still don't like it.

Yep. Even after I chose to disable reputations and do select options to disable it, it still shows up.

[KeLviN]

The fact that looking at a weeks worth of activity is a useful option should be a sign that forum activity is way too low....

I officially demand the return of the "posts since last visit button' and the removal of the 'this week activity' button. I also want to know why i (we) have a bar scale under my (our) name. That's gotta go too.

edit: oh, it's a reputation bar? Still don't like it.

[qumqats]

It's not the same and they don't work as well, but there are "Today's Posts" and "This Week Activity" buttons on top.