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  • aleph
    replied
    I generally agree with the sentiment, but the badges can be fun. I did manage to get an electronic badge this year, but it's <not flashed/improperly flashed/missing-broken component>. How about releasing Gerbers and a hex/elf/whatever-the-chip-likes binary? That should satisfy everyone. If we can't make it and flash it ourselves, maybe we shouldn't be playing with it anyway... :wink: Sure, the binary would give us a leg up, but I've already seen a couple copies of assembly running around anyway. Gerber or at least schematic would allow me to make sure I'm not missing a component or have a bad trace.

    Thank you and great work! You always outdo yourselves!

    Leave a comment:


  • Undertaker
    replied
    For all complaining about not getting an electronic badge; please remember that when you pay your money; you are paying for access to the 4 days of DEFCON, NOT for a particular type of badge. For those who say they wanted a "real" badge; if you got into the Con with it, it was a REAL badge.

    As far as "making more badges", there is a cost benefit analysis going on here; logistically the more complex the badge. the fewer companies there are to manufacture and the longer it takes, not counting any other issues. You make an estimate starting now as to what the likely attendance is going to be and you start developing the badge and looking at who you can procure through. In the end, regardless of how well you plan, you still don't get enough to cover every single person, especially when the Con busts attendance records beyond what was previously projected.

    Next year is a non-electronic badge year - but it is the 25th Anniversary - so no telling what will happen

    Leave a comment:


  • HoneeBadger
    replied
    To my point e

    Leave a comment:


  • HoneeBadger
    replied
    Stood in line for an hour again this morn at Balleys only to be told by a goon "electronic badges are completely gone, only 20 thousand were available". So bummed

    Leave a comment:


  • Mosaic
    replied
    I managed to find a line of Black Hat attendees that were swapping the plastic badges for electronic ones and managed to swap mine late on Friday. The disappointment I had (being my first Defcon) was that it wasn't made clear by Black Hat that the badges they provide are not the electronic ones, nor that it was possible to swap them at all.

    I think there a few solutions for Black Hat they could limit the number and date of pre-sales to ensure there are a number of electronic badges available on site for pickup, or ask their attendees to redeem their voucher at Defcon (benefit of not missing Thursday morning talks / workshop registration), or make clear on their website that they are not selling electronic badges but plastic badges.

    Hopefully they will consider these solutions next year and Black Hat attendees should comment in their feedback.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Originally posted by mikecandoit View Post
    I really don't care that I don't have an electronic badge during the conference. But I would love to have one eventually, so I can play with it. I'd be willing to pay shipping and handling. Any possibility of this happening?
    After con, people sometimes sell them on ebay.

    As for DEF CON, if they have/find any new boxes of badges, they try to get them to attendees accepting paper badges in exchange. There is no advantage for DEF CON to keep any electronic badges behind. Everything "we" keep, we have to ship back with "us" and ruin fun for attendees. Usually, the number of badges we order is all that we order. I don't think we have ever gone back to order more after con for a con that has passed. The only time DEF CON sold badges after con was one year when there was a huge surplus, that cost us missed future opportunities.

    If you still have a paper badge, the best advice is re-check with badge sales daily, mornings are slightly better than evenings, and check on twitter or FaceBook for any announcements if they do find more electronic badges somewhere.

    HTH,
    -Cot

    Leave a comment:


  • HoneeBadger
    replied
    Here is a suggestion, YOU come up with a solution to make it right instead of calmly patronizing your upset paying customers. If you really want our ideas, share the cost to stamp out each badge, dev, test, and shipping included. Please also share all revenues \ expenses \ totals donated to the EFFso we can weigh in on your accounting practices, revenue and expense forecasting, etc. Since we all know this level of detail will not be shared, maybe save everyone's time and just let us know when the extra badges will be available and how you plan to deliver them.I

    n the future, make extra badges and sell the extras as swag or post a LARGE disclaimer stating the coveted electronic badge may or may not be included with the price of admission to DEF CON.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikecandoit
    replied
    I really don't care that I don't have an electronic badge during the conference. But I would love to have one eventually, so I can play with it. I'd be willing to pay shipping and handling. Any possibility of this happening?

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Assuming this is at DEF CON, and recent , they may be out at DEF CON now too:

    https://twitter.com/Rootpwner/status/761391184774168576

    https://twitter.com/JimStLeger/statu...05466727505921

    You can always try again tomorrow morning and times during the day, up to Saturday or Sunday.
    Last edited by TheCotMan; August 4, 2016, 21:05.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Originally posted by Cm0n3y7117 View Post
    Wth...first day...no real badge...i pay 240 for a plastic card.... ant even be apart if the contest...no cool souveneir for my future haxor at home (who's 15 and looks forward to the badge i bring home)...really what has become of DEFCON....my husband who also attends blackhat couldnt even get his and he registered in Feb.... @darktangent come on now you brag about the attendance on the website and about expecting many more this year wouldnt it be logical to make dam sure you have enough badges to cover it....but hey you probably dont care right? You got my $240 and thats all this has become.....
    Have you checked at DEF CON badge sales to see if you can exchange your paper badge for an electronic badge? On twitter, people were reporting the paper badge they received at BlackHat could be exchanged for an electronic one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cm0n3y7117
    replied
    Wth...first day...no real badge...i pay 240 for a plastic card.... ant even be apart if the contest...no cool souveneir for my future haxor at home (who's 15 and looks forward to the badge i bring home)...really what has become of DEFCON....my husband who also attends blackhat couldnt even get his and he registered in Feb.... @darktangent come on now you brag about the attendance on the website and about expecting many more this year wouldnt it be logical to make dam sure you have enough badges to cover it....but hey you probably dont care right? You got my $240 and thats all this has become.....

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    There are reports on twitter that at DEF CON, they have been exchanging paper badges for electronic badges. Assuming this is true, while supplies last?

    Good luck!
    -Cot

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Originally posted by R33t View Post
    Spoke with BlackHat and they stated that the badges were handed out by DefCon Representatives and that we should speak with DefCon about the issue. So basically taking no responsibility. Is there a way to swap them for real badges?
    Historically, when this has happened, when badges are found, sometimes there is an opportunity to swap a paper badge for an electronic one. Sometimes part of incomplete badges are found, and then people have the option of switching a paper badge for PCB, but it is not functional. Sometimes this is announced in hallways for people to hear in-person, first-come, first served. Sometimes on Facebook, though the defcon or dcib twitter feeds are also possible sources of announcements like this.

    Some accounts to follow on twitter:
    https://twitter.com/defcon
    https://twitter.com/dcib
    https://twitter.com/DEFCON_NOC
    https://twitter.com/thedarktangent
    https://twitter.com/v3rtig0
    https://twitter.com/Niki7a
    https://twitter.com/defcon101

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/defcon?src=hash

    And unofficial:
    https://twitter.com/defconparties

    I know there were reports today of the lines to redeem tokens for DEF CON badges at BlackHat had lines that took longer to run though, while lines at DEF CON seemed to have reports of time to wait for about 40 minutes with some reporting a bit over an hour, and others reporting a bit under 30 minutes. On social media, images showing the lines at DEF CON were mostly gone (little waiting) appeared at around 11:32am, while images of long lines at BlackHat seemed to persist to the afternoon.

    I read a complaint online where someone claimed they tried to take the token to badge redemption up to get a badge, but were refused a DEF CON badge, because their name on the token did not match the name on their BlackHat pass, but it is not clear if this was at DEF CON or BlackHat.

    If there were DEF CON representatives on-site at BlackHat, what direction would you provide them on how they could decrease the risk for this problem?

    I am guessing, your first suggestion would be to ensure there are enough electronic badges to cover the total number of pre-paid DEF CON badges by people at BlackHat. However, if this is not possible for whatever reason, what alternatives wold you suggest?

    If there was no way that BlackHat and DEF CON are able to find an agreement where DEF CON badges could be pre-purchased by BlackHat attendees and also *guarantee* them a non-paper badge (so-called "real" badge, or better, "electronic" badge) would you prefer to not have that option, but instead go to DEF CON to pay cash for a badge?

    Why could this happen? Badge designed and manufacturing could start 12 months before con manufacturing orders may start 4 to 6 months before con, where numbers of electronic badges are specified. Time to build, validate, ship, pass customs are all consumed in window. Selection by BlackHat attendees to buy a badge for DEF CON may happen after the day and time when the order for badges is completed. This necessarily would mean risk for shortage or surplus is much more likely than having the exact total needed, making ordering of badges a best guess. Surplus of badges harms other services as money wasted on surplus can't be spent on other things for attendees. If something like this limits the total number of electronic badges, then some people will have paper badges. How would you decide who would get the paper badges?

    Letting people know of problems is a good step towards discussion. The next is providing suggestions to solve the issues, and consider how to solve other issue that may make the preferred solution impossible,

    Much of the DEF CON side of things works as it does because volunteer take the time to volunteer ideas to solve problems like this. What suggestions would you have for the DEF CON people that may be involved?

    Like the other thread I linked to, content and suggestions made here (and there) will be included in a summary of what was liked and what was not for DEF CON department heads to aid in future planning.

    How would you solve the issues described above? If there is a guarantee that there will almost always be a shortage of non-paper badges, how would you choose who gets which kind of badge?

    Thanks for your idea on this and any other issues you find,
    -Cot
    Last edited by TheCotMan; August 4, 2016, 18:36.

    Leave a comment:


  • R33t
    replied
    Spoke with BlackHat and they stated that the badges were handed out by DefCon Representatives and that we should speak with DefCon about the issue. So basically taking no responsibility. Is there a way to swap them for real badges?

    Leave a comment:


  • yaloner
    replied
    Same here. Very VERY annoyed by this.
    ​​​​​​Defcon is the only conference in the world where the badge actually means something.
    Please be responsible organizers and find a way to help us.
    Pointing at someone else is unacceptable.
    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:

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