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  • pclazarus
    replied
    I'm SO GLAD that I found out about having the original vax card AFTER I drove 500 miles and spent $700 on a hotel room. I just CAN'T WAIT to participate from my hotel room.

    Leave a comment:


  • xnor
    replied
    Umm for those confused about how the cdc is keeping track of vaccinated citizens: vams.cdc.gov ... I mean, you have an ID# along with Name, D.O.B, and vaccination time and places.
    I work in the healthcare vertical and we all think this is dumb as f### and could be handled in a much less aggressive manner. Either way, I was able to sort me end out. I still don't see any good justification. Or at least let us know who this third party is so we can contact them instead. What happened to transparency?

    Leave a comment:


  • snerd
    replied
    ok. what I'm hearing is that y'all made a decision, didn't communicate to your registrants effectively, and have no plan for what happens when some of your registrants inevitably show up sans the form of vaccination proof you find acceptable.

    if you haven't already - y'all probably should -- RIGHT NOW -- email your registrants and let them know what's up. A lot of people haven't arrived yet and you can save yourselves and you're attendees a lot of trouble by doing so.

    I'll try to sort this out with another conference admin. Ty for your help and have a rad rest of your day!

    Leave a comment:


  • number6
    commented on 's reply
    If you want a refund, contact shop@defcon.org and they can start that process.

  • snerd
    replied
    I hear you that you're "the messenger" - but please don't lecture me. Just as you're "the messenger", I'm not the guy who made the digital vaccination certification scheme and nor did I have a choice in receiving that as proof of vaccination and nor am I advocating for or against it. I simply don't care.

    What I do care about is the fact that the conference made a decision that puts me and a lot of other people in a bind. What are the next steps for someone who has registered, paid, and doesn't have proof of vaccination that you find acceptable? Do we participate digitally from our hotel rooms? Do we get a refund? Both? What's the plan?

    ty

    Leave a comment:


  • number6
    commented on 's reply
    I've heard nothing about support for digital vaccination checks, and I would not expect to at a hacker conference. You are not the first to ask about it, so, I'll try to provide some problems with digital checks.

    First, interception of data for poorly setup digital systems it a problem, and next, many will require installing their own "app" with its own requirements on supported versions of mobile OS, or desktop OS, and how can anyone differentiate between an official app vs a poorly maintained original vs malware? There will be people from different states, or countries with their own systems and services, which work for people or entities who are citizens or located within the boundaries of that region, which might not use English as a supported language.

    Then there is the issue of custom hardware. Some people might have smart cards, or RFID card with chip, using any variety of frequencies to enable communications, and possibly ruquirements of a public cert for validation of signing. Then there are USB based smart cards, and who wants to plug a random USB dongle into their computer? Risks for custom hardware or cards or chips which store vaccination records are another complication.

    Then there is the data-mining and data-leakage which then confirms for the provider of service that someone claiming to be you wanted a vaccination check at a GeoIP location which appears to be Las Vegas during DEF CON. Paper bypasses electronic data-mining.

    A paper form reduces risk of exposure with electronic copies, and reduces complexity of support, and speeds the process for validation and checking vs. figuring out which app, on which device with what procedures to complete a portal process, and not exceed ToS for "too many checks without [filing for service license||paying annual fee after passing service checks|| contacting a person for special access||*]. "

    I could imagine that. "Here, go to the app store and install this app; it will work." At a hacker conference. Even without malware, it is pretty easy to make an app that confirms any "electronic scan" presented to it. (Beep! (Text on screen) "Looks legit!" (thumbs-up icon/emoji.)) WAY easier than forging a paper document and government issued photo ID.

    Paper is the fastest procedure with the widest possible support and simplest processes for validation checking, with the smallest technological footprint.
    The costs to "datamine paper" are basically all physical, in-person attack, which can be difficult to detect (small cameras) but are easier to detect than passive network observation and packet capture.

    Those are some of the arguments for paper vs "who-knows-what" electronic service validation.

    None of that really matters, as the present policy states you must provide the original document provided to you by your vaccination provider and a government issued Photo ID.

    Citation:

    https://forum.defcon.org/node/238509

    I do not set policy or get to grant exceptions. I only get to provide the present policy with citations and sometimes reasons why one choice can be much better than another choice.

    I hope this helps!
    Last edited by number6; August 5, 2021, 00:43.

  • snerd
    replied
    is the verifier set up to validate SMART Health cards? I didn't receive any communication from y'all about the necessity for a paper card and honestly my digital record of the vaccination has always been sufficient whenver anyone needed to check my status. Note that the digital record isn't a photo of the paper card - it's a verified digital health record proving I've been vaccinated.

    Leave a comment:


  • tylerb
    replied
    So let me get this straight. An easily forged piece of paper is accepted, but a digital version from my state's health department site is not? Considering DEFCON is about HACKING and has a wall of shame for people getting hacked, this deserves to be publicly shamed WAY beyond this forum. Seriously, a computer hacking conference is taking a piece of paper as better evidence than a government database? Wow!

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusted
    replied
    Lost the original vaccine card. Small town Utah is not providing replacements because "they are not legally valid and can be duplicated too easy". I have been directed by them to use a phone app called "Docket" as legal proof of vaccine that shows the history of all vaccines including covid. Will this be accepted as valid proof for the vaccine? This is the only proof the government is able to offer. Not super excited to drive 12 hours to find out I am not able to enter.

    Leave a comment:


  • xnor
    replied
    No reason to shoot the messenger. I appreciate your help! I am still confused by why VAMS, which is provided by the CDC, is not sufficient but a piece of paper is. But that's not on you. Thanks again!

    Leave a comment:


  • number6
    replied
    I've heard no change to this:
    * A person must be "Fully Vaccinated" (CDC definition: last shot in complete series at least weeks before DEF CON badge pickup)
    * You must provide the original proof given to you by your vaccine provider indicating your completed series of shots (1 for J&J, and 2 for Pfizer/Moderna) with dates that match requirements for Fully Vaccinated by CDC.
    * You must provide a government issued photo ID with an image that matches you, (each person looking to get a badge) and a name on the ID which matches the name on the original vaccination proof. Some originals are not signed by the provider and have no space for sigs, still bring the original as given to you by your vaccination provide as proof.

    The people at the vaccination check should not be copying any data about you or your vaccination at the vaccine check, and should take no pictures or video of your details.

    I've asked about photo copies, phone copies, fax copies, carbon copies, stone tablet copies, digital camera copied, color printer copies, scanner then printed copies, pretty much any kind of copy of an original. Still, no copies accepted, the proof of vaccination has to be the original document provided to you by your vaccination provider indicating which shot, when and details like provider and name that matches your government issued photo ID.

    I don't get to make exceptions.

    I only get to quote the present policies, and they have not changed.

    If you can't provide an original vaccination proof, you can ask more, and hope for a different answer from someone that can make decisions or exceptions, or if having the badge is your primary goal, not attending DEF CON, maybe you have a trusted proxy who is willing and able to visit DEF CON and redeem your code, then bring you your badge and human+ code. Details of this provided here: https://forum.defcon.org/node/238509/page2#post238722

    Leave a comment:


  • xnor
    replied
    Is there any way we can get some form of update on this? If not, who is the third party verifier? Maybe they can provide an answer? Thank you. I am excited about attending Def Con!

    Leave a comment:


  • xnor
    replied
    Yes I also need an update. I can provide official proof of vaccination using VAMS (vaccine administration management system). That's sufficient in healthcare ... I know because I work in the Healthcare space. So how is a piece of paper nobody kept being used as proof? This should be fixed or you're going to have a lot of people requesting a refund or just losing time and money.

    Leave a comment:


  • number6
    commented on 's reply
    I do not make policy or approve exceptions. The only answer I have to provide is the same as in the FAQ as of "now" (July 29, 2021) and elsewhere: "You must provide an original, signed, vaccination card, dated no later than July 22nd, 2021" and a copy in photo, copy as fax, photo-copy, color printed copy are all technically copies and not the original.

    You will have to wait for some other answer that is not in the FAQ or hope for a revision.

    It is possible the answer for this could change, but I do not get to make that decision.

  • lav85Pare
    replied
    Humbly requesting update before I have to ether scrub or make a 2000 mile round drive home. Thanks

    Leave a comment:

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