The Matrix Reloaded (possibly spoiler in time...)

[nulltone]

A little bit of a theory here...
Neo is a program.
Yes, he is. I haven't had a chance to play "Enter the Matrix", a video game which ties Matrix2 and Matrix3 together, but I have heard that several plot elements are revealed. Something about the Oracle being a program, and Neo also indirectly being referenced to as a program.
Anyone want to confirm this?

I guess it explains why Keanu is reserving all his talent in this film—you know, he's got to seem like bad actor, because in the end it turns out that he's, well, not exactly human.

[ch0l0man]

Originally posted by nulltone
A little bit of a theory here...
Neo is a program.
Yes, he is. I haven't had a chance to play "Enter the Matrix", a video game which ties Matrix2 and Matrix3 together, but I have heard that several plot elements are revealed. Something about the Oracle being a program, and Neo also indirectly being referenced to as a program.
Anyone want to confirm this?

I guess it explains why Keanu is reserving all his talent in this film—you know, he's got to seem like bad actor, because in the end it turns out that he's, well, not exactly human.

i havent played the game, but have heard of it also revealing some of the plot.
funny that you mentioned that neo is a program, we were discussing it at work and my co-worker iris brought that up, she says that the Architect mentions that he is a program.
ill have to listen to me speak again and see if i can pick up that part.
they oracle told neo that she was a program right.

that would explain his bad acting in reloaded, but what about his other movies? lol.

[converge]

I believe it was all a well thought plan. All his other movie appearances were consecutively worse to build the effect just for the Matrix.. I call them appearances because you can't really call that acting. ..shit, I still get headaches for watching part of that urban kid baseball chick flick he did.

I also think that the program theory is a good one. The oracle referenced it herself in the whole splurge about "programs hacking programs", the ghosts/vampires talk, et al. With Agents and Sentinals performing very similar functions, in different 'worlds', it would make sense that each agent is somehow tied to a sentinal. The difference being that Smith is no longer bound by the instructions being given to him... some form of advanced AI. Hence still being a program, Neo could in theory 'hack' Smith and somehow gain power/control over the Sentinal(s). Too much left open though to really put a finger on it.. maybe I should get the game.

[ch0l0man]

ok im posting how i think revolutions will end.

i think that the movie will end with the camera pulling back and a kid turning off his moniter or saving the SIM game he is playing.

i know its way out there, but after reloaded im looking way out there.

[astcell]

You enjoy the endings of MiB and MIIB too, didn't you. :D

[ch0l0man]

Originally posted by astcell
You enjoy the endings of MiB and MIIB too, didn't you. :D

lol.
well i was getting that from another movie but i couldnt remember which one, but i guess now that you said that it must have been those two :p
but then the architect voice\tone sounded familiar too, like out of another movie, just cant put my finger on it.

ill stick too my ending until revolutions comes out and im proved wrong.

[ch0l0man]

DARPA dabbles in real-world 'Matrix'

By Thomas C. Greene, The Register May 21 2003 5:39AM

Defense Department ubergeeks at DARPA are for a soliciting proposals comprehensive, searchable database of individual human lives encompassing every communication, encounter, transaction and even 'feeling' generated by a lifetime of social interaction.

It's called LifeLog, and it would combine a plethora of sensors, including medical sensors, along with a vast transactional database and an exhaustive catalogue of media encountered, all compiled and tweaked to preserve every scrap of data that a subject might talk or write about, or be observed to do or say or confront, or be reasonably assumed to intend.

"LifeLog must acquire data to capture both the user's physical experiences in the world and his or her interactions with other entities in the world," DARPA says.

On the level of intimacy proposed, this would surround participants with a tremendous outfit of wearable devices, probes, cameras and bugging devices for their phones, computers, televisions, fax machines and so on.

"Physical data is captured by various physical sensors and is stored as multiple data streams in appropriate formats at appropriate resolutions. Transactional data is extracted principally from a number of computer applications. Detectors, recognizers, analysis tools, and heuristics are used to 'distill' the data, associating metadata, flagging keywords, and otherwise preparing the data for further categorization in terms of representations at various levels of abstraction."

That's the easy part, the 'VoyeurDorm.com' on steroids bit. The trick will be to tame all that data and make it easily and intelligently searchable so that sense can be made of it. DARPA's a little vague on how they see that happening:

"Through inference and reasoning, LifeLog generates multiple layers of representation at increasing levels of abstraction. The input data streams are abstracted into sequences of events and states, which are aggregated into threads and episodes to produce a timeline that constitutes an 'episodic memory' for the individual."

"Patterns of events in the timeline support the identification of routines, relationships, and habits. Preferences, plans, goals, and other markers of intentionality are at the highest level."

So what's it good for? Assuming any normal human being would volunteer for this sort of endless "Truman Show" scrutiny, the research could be used to make machines impersonate humans more faithfully, to improve educational and training simulations and enrich VR games. At least there's a hint of that:

"Application of the LifeLog abstraction structure in a synthesizing mode will eventually allow synthetic game characters and humanoid robots to lead more 'realistic' lives."

The computer games and porn industries will certainly benefit richly, and may well provide the vast commercial market needed to sustain such an expensive undertaking.

But what about military applications? Better simulations and better battlefield agents for strategists, DARPA reckons. Of course those 'realistic humanoid robots' will come in quite handy when DoD decides to take over the government by systematically replacing senior civilian officials and media personalities with duplicate military automata. It's comforting to learn from the proposal request that the state of the art is such that they probably haven't done so already, in case you've been wondering. ®

[pyrophite]

Neo-Architect conversation

some people where quite confused when hearing the Neo-Architect conversation. Reading it could help you to understand the plot a bit better. here ya go ................

***********************START********************** *************
The Architect -
Hello, Neo.
Neo -
Who are you?

The Architect -
I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo -
Why am I here?

The Architect -
Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo -
You haven't answered my question.

The Architect -
Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Others? What others? How many? Answer me!'*

The Architect -
The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bull shit.*

Neo -
There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect -
Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: You can't control me! Fuck you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do
anything!*

Neo -
Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect -
The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.
If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo -
The Oracle.

The Architect -
Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would
constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo -
This is about Zion.

The Architect -
You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull shit.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Bull shit!*

The Architect -
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect -
The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo -
You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect -
There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect -
It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neo's dream appear on the monitors*

Neo -
Trinity.

The Architect -
Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo -
No!

The Architect -
Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect -
Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo -
If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect -
We won't.

*******************END**************************** ********

[converge]

I'm gonna do what I should have done the same night I saw Reloaded... break out a bowl of popcorn and dig out The Matrix for an enlightened viewing ;)

There are some interesting things that come up in the discussion with the Architect, and some things that were purposefully diffused by Neo changing the subject or causing the Architect to go on a different tangent.. however, the Architect scene is definately not as important to the plot/theory as so many people show by their undivided focus.

--edit-- pyrophite, are you Natoma?

[astcell]

Matrix questions

If Neo can put up his hand and stop bullets five feet away from him, why can't he put up his hand and stop Agents five feet away?

If the Agents knew Neo was who he was going to be, why didn't they kill him at the start of the first Matrix?

Why didn't the Architect include a self-destruct mechanism for amyone geting out of thier pods, thus immediately eliminating those who wake up and get up?

Is the architect really The Architect, or is he simply a cog in the machinery, like the Oracle seems to be?

If Neo was still physically on the ship while visiting the back doors of the Matrix (he vanished off their tracking screen for a bit), then are the back doors really back doors or are they too part of the Matrix illusion?

Why do Agents keep coming if they know they are so ineffective? Reminds me of the Power Ranger bad guys.

When Neo left The Architect he had flames coming out of him as he flew. I don't know about you, but if I had flames around my computer boards like that I would have serious issues. I wonder if he nuked any of the Matrix by pulling that stunt.

Why not turn the entire population of the planet into Agents?

[dataworm]

Originally posted by nulltone
Neo is a program.

This is also the impression I had when I left the theater... But I think he is more than a normal program... I think Neo might be a Backdoor left by the original programmer as a mecanism to protect agains the matrix itself if something go wrong...

Btw why do we have to beleive more in the fact said in Matrix 2? after all the program could be lying to Neo... it's not that now they say something that they don't manipulate again...

I am out of here...

[encrypt31945]

Re: Matrix questions

Originally posted by astcell
If Neo can put up his hand and stop bullets five feet away from him, why can't he put up his hand and stop Agents five feet away?

If the Agents knew Neo was who he was going to be, why didn't they kill him at the start of the first Matrix?

Why didn't the Architect include a self-destruct mechanism for amyone geting out of thier pods, thus immediately eliminating those who wake up and get up?

Is the architect really The Architect, or is he simply a cog in the machinery, like the Oracle seems to be?

If Neo was still physically on the ship while visiting the back doors of the Matrix (he vanished off their tracking screen for a bit), then are the back doors really back doors or are they too part of the Matrix illusion?

Why do Agents keep coming if they know they are so ineffective? Reminds me of the Power Ranger bad guys.

When Neo left The Architect he had flames coming out of him as he flew. I don't know about you, but if I had flames around my computer boards like that I would have serious issues. I wonder if he nuked any of the Matrix by pulling that stunt.

Why not turn the entire population of the planet into Agents?

They wouldn't kill neo because he is an anomily and is needed to keep the matrix running. The exact same scene needs to be repeated with zion for Neo to do the same thing so they wouldn't blow up the people. The agents are probably programed to stop neo and cant go against thier programing easily

[converge]

...but.. the whole premise of the last two films has been that the agents are trying to kill Neo, not just tie him up and gag him for a really really long time

[nulltone]

Is the architect really The Architect, or is he simply a cog in the machinery, like the Oracle seems to be?

To answer, that, quotation from below:
"...the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.
If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother."
Another program? If the mother is a program, how can the father not be one?
Also, has anyone found a link to that "Enter the Matrix" game spoiler's page? That had the info about Neo being born out of two programs.

Something else interesting:

You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human.

That’s what the Architect said. Interesting.

Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one.

In these two places, the Architect calls Neo human. Is he being literal, trying to confuse Neo (and us), or is he using it in some derogatory way, as anyone overrun with emotion has ultimately descended to the lowly title of 'human'.

[encrypt31945]

I'm not sure but now that I think about it Neo could be a program because he is made up of lots of different people.