The Matrix Reloaded (possibly spoiler in time...)

[usrid0]

i'm sure we've all seen this, but it's a great rendition of reloaded:
http://www.localhost.nl/stuff/images...atrix/001.html :)

[converge]

hahah that's great!

sound familiar?

[pyrophite]

its allways fun to read the dialogue of keanu reeves
as well :D


http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[converge]

Things I have done: watched the Matrix and Reloaded, again
Things I've yet to do: play the game, watch animatrix

My current theory: (which coheres with my previous splurge about the Oracle)

In the third installation, we will likely find out that while Neo can do a lot of really nifty things, but is indeed not The One. Nor has he necessarily been, or will be. We will likely find out that Agent Smith and Neo's greatest admirer have much more connection to the fate of the Matrix/Zion than Neo.

Zion will likely be discovered as a part of the Matrix [or a newer/next version ] designed to control what the machines felt was the anomaly from experience with the previous Matrix incarnations. The problem being that this anomaly (Neo) is not really the threat to the Matrix. The Oracle knows this, but remains a neutral part of the system to her preference/role (ie kernel? 'protects that which matters most'). The reason for symbolic usage of 101 (binary for 5) being because the Matrix that everyone believes they are patching into is actually a running 5th version of the Matrix. The architect reference to a 6th version hints to their present Zion/world and not the Matrix as Morpheus and crew know it. Neo realizes this (or at least to some extent) when he finds he can control the Sentinals in the 'real' world.
I can't seem to dig up anything that would prove whether Neo is or isn't a program, but I am leaning to the idea that he is NOT machine level..

I am interested in assertions that make this theory incorrect... or further thoughts on how it might make sense. I have more thoughts to the same coherent theory, but.. I don't really feel like typing anymore at the moment :)

[astcell]

Matrix III: Finding Neo ;)

[encrypt31945]

How could Neo not be "the one"? Who would "the one" be then. As for agent smith, I think he does have a big role in the third movie. I dont see trenity having as big a role though.

[astcell]

Maybe Agent Smith is The One. Wouldn't that be a hoot.

[pezz]

Is there anyone on the board who Has NOT watched the matrix yet?

[converge]

My basis is highly dependant on thinking about the kid that tags along Neo and wants to join on the Neb. They spent a bunch of reloaded film playing out different aspects of that.. and I find that an odd thing to just throw in there for the sake of putting it there.

Specifically the part where Neo says 'you saved yourself'... the dialog (as rough as it is played out) kinda gives me the impression that everyone is saying Neo saved him (because everyone believe Neo is the One, but that Neo knows differently about the situation and can barely accept it himself. It's a pretty strong thing to say, considering that the only way anyone else ever got out of the matrix was through the help of someone giving them the choice and then pulling them out pending that choice..

The other interesting things being that Smith (in Zion carnation) was not killed by the Sentinals while everyone else was.. lends to the idea that he (with knowledge as a former Agent) came to a similar conclusion as Neo. Although I doubt Smith would be the One, he'll likely have a major role in the third..

Unless I'm completely off base by this point :)

[encrypt31945]

Maybe smith was not killed because he can somehow control the sentinels or him being a program the sentinels didn't attack him for some reason. That or he was the one who set off the emp early and was the reason why the sentinels could invade zion.

[KeLviN]

Originally posted by encrypt31945
Maybe smith was not killed because he can somehow control the sentinels or him being a program the sentinels didn't attack him for some reason. That or he was the one who set off the emp early and was the reason why the sentinels could invade zion.

have you even seen the movie?!

[blackwave]

Matrix Revolutions Theatrical trailer posted!

http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.co...ev_frames.html

[Natoma]

I would like to point out, since Converge asked this question directly and pyrophite did not answer, that I am Natoma, and I am very upset that pyrophite took what I wrote, copied it verbatim, and posted it here as his own.

It is well over a year since I wrote that post, but I am very VERY upset that this blatant plagiarism is going on. The post he copied verbatim is here: http://www.coronaproductions.com/ubb...ML/001913.html

My second post on Reloaded is here: http://forums.matrixfans.net/showthr...&threadid=8041

My post on Matrix Revolutions is here, and I link to the two main posts I made regarding Reloaded at the end of that post: http://forums.matrixfans.net/showthread.php?p=265817

pyrophite completely and unabashedly plagiarized my work, and I want that known.

Ok I saw Reloaded last night (again the 3rd time) and after having a good 2-3hr discourse with my friends about the film, I think anyone who didn't understand it and didn't like the film "didn't get it." Don't get me wrong, that's not a knock. But the things I've heard don't jive with what is really in the film, in terms of the depth of meaning.
This movie *needs* an after film discourse, and needs to be seen multiple times. There were certainly a few parts where I had to suspend my disbelief even moreso (burly brawl, but even then, it really was heads and tails above anything we've ever seen. Hello, anyone remember the CGI in Blade 2? Now try to imagine a camera swooping in and out of that drivel), but the film as a story was chock full of plot.

I can try to answer any questions/problems that people have had with the film. I did that with one of my friends last night after he said he really didn't like the film, didn't understand it. After we talked with our friends about the movie, he was like "Holy shit."

I can just put it like this simply. The Matrix made me question what is real and what is virtually generated. Reloaded made me question the first Matrix. They were almost polar opposites in every facet

Matrix 1: Morpheus wakes up Neo to the truth about the world and his purpose, and informs him that he's part of a larger system that he helps perpetuate by staying asleep.
Matrix 2: Neo wakes up Morpheus to the truth of his existence, and how he's been "used" along with all other Zion humans, to continue to perpetuate the system.

Matrix 1: Trinity revives Neo after bullet wounds to his chest with the kiss of love.
Matrix 2: Neo revives Trinity after a bullet wound to the chest by the power of his love and his ability to manipulate her digital self.

Btw, I think that when Neo entered her Matrix code, he was in fact shutting down the signals that her Matrix self was sending to her body that said "Die, you've been shot." Remember, only Neo had the ability to fully control his surroundings. For the rest of them, the Matrix was more powerful than their ability to keep from dying, even when receiving a digital "mortal wound." Neo changed her code to shut down that signal, which is why he removed the bullet first, then jump started her heart.

Matrix 1: The Oracle says "What will really bake your noodle later on is, would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything" when speaking with Neo about the Vase. Makes you wonder about a lot of things. If this is all about choice, and how we are influenced by suggestive comments, what about the rest of their "choices?"

I think the Oracle planted Trinity's love for Neo, and Neo's love for Trinity, through suggestion. More on this in the "Matrix 2" portion.

Matrix 2: During the scene with the Architect, I got the feeling that in the prior 5 incarnations of "The One," they all chose to rejoin the Matrix in order to save all mankind. If you remember, the Architect told Neo that the previous 5 went into the door because they felt an overwhelming connection to their species, i.e. the human race.

I think the Oracle realized this. I think she created Trinity and Neo's love affair in the 6th iteration in order to try and break the cycle. That's why she told Trinity that she would definitely fall in love with the one. Looking back at the first one, I think Trinity was scoping him out and really looking for that love. Then the Oracle told Neo, "I can see why she likes you." From Neo's reaction, he obviously didn't have a clue who that was, so I don't think he was really looking to be in love. However, once the Oracle gave him that hint, he either consciously or subconsciously began trying to figure out who it was, and they connected.

So I believe their love affair was engineered by the Oracle in order to give Neo another choice. In the past, the Ones had two choices. Rejoin the Matrix to save all of Humanity, or let all of Humanity and the machines die.

And if you recall, that's what M2 has been all about. The choices we are given, and the reasons we choose them.

However this time, the One had a third option. Save the love of his life. And in a rather human display of illogic and emotion, as the architect stated, Neo chose the love of his life, which broke the cycle as the Oracle intended.

Neo was given a choice, but in retrospect, he never had one. From the moment the Oracle "commanded" Trinity and Neo to fall in love, he was already set on the path to choose her over the rest of humanity and the machines.

And that goes back to the point about what is really choice. What is really free will. If there is truly a god (christian that is), did he/she/it really create all of us with free will? That god stated in the bible that we all have free choice, the ability to make up our own minds. The ends of those means are either heaven or hell. However, if god is omniscient, then he/she/it already knows who goes to heaven and hell. So in a sense, it's already been predetermined.

So that gets back to the original point of do we *truly* have free will, and what indeed is free will then?

There are a lot of other mirrors between the first and second film. I'm still trying to get my head around everything. Please forgive the stream of consciousness-like post, but I really needed to get all of this crap out. Believe it or not there's a lot more where this came from. But I'm kind of a philosophy nerd anyways. :lol:

Btw, regarding Neo's ability to stop the machines. I do not believe that they are in a Matrix within a Matrix. They are truly in the "real world."

*However,* we've seen what Neo's interactions with the code in the Matrix does. When he entered Smith's code at the end of the first film, they were both enmeshed in one another. Smith said it in the second film. Something about that exchange connected the two in some way that was completely and utterly different than any other connection. Neo can sense Agents now. He can sense Smith now.

I think when he entered the source, he enmeshed with the actual code of the architect, and took that back with him to the real world. I think some of that code gave him the ability to connect to the sentient machines and send direct signals to them. Remember, he's many parts machine now (the plugs). Considering they are tied directly to his nervous system, if he gives off enough bioelectric energy from his brain (which all you biology majors should remember we use to send our nerve impulses throughout our body), he can send a brief "Stop!" command to the sentinels over a very short distance. They were on top of him.

And I think that's why he went into a coma after that. Because he had expended so much bioelectric nervous energy that his mind needed time to recuperate.

--------------------

Now, everyone remember the 'system failure' at the end of the first matrix? I believe that is what the architect was talking about. When Neo became "The One," the matrix began to break down. That's why the rebels freed more people in the last 6 months than they had in the prior 6 years. The Matrix was breaking down and more and more people were becoming aware of the truth.

That is why the architect said that if Neo didn't rejoin the Matrix and disperse his code to the new matrix, everything and everyone would die. This continuous cycle of birth, death, and regeneration was necessary in order to keep the codebase fresh and appealing for the billions of minds connected to the system.

I'm thinking more on this particular bit, so please don't mind the brevity of my discussion on this portion.

----------------------------------------

In the first matrix, morpheus summed up what the matrix truly was. When we first saw the matrix, we believed he was strictly speaking about the actual virtual world. However, I believe that the matrix is not the virtual world. I believe it's the virtual world + Zion.

"What is the matrix? Control. The Matrix is a computer generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this."

Then he holds up a battery. However, I think his speech needs to be editted.

"What is the matrix? Control. The Matrix is a construct built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this."

Cue the battery.

[hackajar]

OMFG did you toll to find this just to post to a dead thread that you made said statements about a moive trilogy. That statments repeted to a "t" were "plagerism" on your non-existing copyright. Further, we found out the hard way, that neither sequal stayed within form of the first, and they were a huge joke, so it's all irrelivent at this point anyways.

(yeah I know OP, vB needs spell check for my weak ass)

[Natoma]

OMFG did you toll to find this just to post to a dead thread that you made said statements about a moive trilogy. That statments repeted to a "t" were "plagerism" on your non-existing copyright. Further, we found out the hard way, that neither sequal stayed within form of the first, and they were a huge joke, so it's all irrelivent at this point anyways.

(yeah I know OP, vB needs spell check for my weak ass)

The point, hackajar, is that pyrophite took credit for my writings on The Matrix films. I don't care if people copy what I write, but at least give credit where it is due. Your opinion on the movies is rather irrelevant in this case. I'm not here to debate that with you.

I had lost the links to the writings I posted. So I googled and this forum just so happened to show up along with Corona Productions and MatrixFans, which is where the actual text was written down.

And yes, I posted this in a dead thread because either way, I want it public knowledge that this person is taking work and not giving due credit.