scene degradation

[dataworm]

Re: replies

Originally posted by cyn0n
greets-
In response to criticism:
"What do you suppose we do instead of work for security companies? Work at McDonalds?" Well, yes. I can't expand my entire philosophy here and it probably doesn't entirely fit the 'hacker ethic & culture' but I would strongly recommend not selling yourself for temprorary comfort. (eg: making money by working for the security industry)

So I should sell myself to McDonalds instead? are they better? I guess not... McDonalds is one a the biggest symbol of what you seem to hate... If you think I work in IT Sec for money you have a finger in your eye, I work in IT Sec because I like it...
Are you going to come to defcon? I suggest you to stay home, you'll be loosing your time there...

As for those of you who have asked what I'm going to do to change the scene I don't think a single answer can accomodate everyone's question, but I do believe encouraging others to recognize their contribution to the decline of hacker culture and encouraging them to stand up for what is right should be the number one priority. This can mean anything from writing t-files to evangelizing drunkenly in hotel rooms but

Start by contribuing to the communauty, and then come back and we will see...
Hacking is't religion don't mix stuff, and hacking have nothing to do with politics...

You should stop watching movie...

the main point is getting the information out that we are in a decline and need to get back to our original values.

What information are you looking for? There is more information that you are able to read... If you have issue accessing information, I think you are the one to blame...

[blackwave]

Re: replies

Originally posted by cyn0n
As for those of you who have asked what I'm going to do to change the scene I don't think a single answer can accomodate everyone's question, but I do believe encouraging others to recognize their contribution to the decline of hacker culture and encouraging them to stand up for what is right should be the number one priority.

That is basically like saying you are going to preach to everyone to be good... which is often what most people do indirectly--- Can you provide tanglible artifacts that will evolve for the better? I am sure all of us can reminisce about "back-in-the-day"... but that has all changed for the better hasn't it? ... patched as it were... no longer are the days where one can rehash ideas and feed them to isolated parts of the world. We are interconnected and information spreads faster than ever before. How are you using this to your advantage?

[ch0l0man]

Re: replies

Originally posted by cyn0n
I would strongly recommend not selling yourself for temprorary comfort. (eg: making money by working for the security industry)

this sounded like me when i lived at home with mommy and daddy. oh the days without bills, to make it in this world you will sell out to some degree, this is just fact.
if you dont then you can look forward to jail, the street, or some very bad neighborhood or if you got balls to take your own life the grave.

[KeLviN]

why cant people get paid for doing what they enjoy?

reguardless; i have picked a career having little to do with computers at all. does it still mean that i sold out just because i dont spen my techno-talent on destructive outlets? and the reason why even non-destructive yet illegal shit isnt widespred any more, is because, unlike the good old days, things are now illegal, prosecuted, and carry STIFF penalties. the only way to do your "old skool" hacking is to become a security admin and play around LEGALY.

those days are gone. you can glorify them all you want, but when it comes down to it all; you will get caught eventualy in this new era.


this sounds all muttled, but im not changing it. im tired. leave me alone.

[converge]

I'm not posting in this thread because the entire premise is retarded, misguided, and pointless.

cyn0n: go back to reading your quarterly and leave the thinking to those that can do something effective with it

now that I think of it.. I think _I'll_ take a walk down to the local gym and let everyone there know that _I_ think the olympics aren't what the y used to be, and that they need to train harder.. maybe try to convince the gym employees that they are selling out and try to get them to quit there jobs

[yankee]

Different take on things--I don't necessarily agree with everything that cyn0n has said, but I'm always glad to see someone really committed to something. Really, this is one of the few posts where someone's excited about something related to computing/hack/crack/phreak/whatever. Usually, posts are just quips and/or pissing on forum neophytes.

Yes, he's idealistic, and yes, he might be wrong about a few things (cyn0n, note the "might"). But damn, it's nice to see a true believer. People don't always like what they have to say, but they're easy to respect.

[korben]

Re: scene degradation

Originally posted by cyn0n
Whatever happened to all of the anarchist hackers who would proxy through a .edu while transferring to a .mil in order to fuck the state? Whatever happened to the hardcore phreaks that owned trunks upon trunks of the phone company? What happened to the groups that would protect the underground from people like the RIAA?

They grew up, shed their teen angst/attitude, and realized that risking your future doing shit to impress people on the internet isn't worth it when you can get paid for doing practically the same stuff for a security company.

There are still people who want to rage against the machine and fuck things up just for fun. These people are usually referred to as script kiddies, because doing these things no longer requires the level of knowledge it used to.

[Chris]

I have stayed off of this one up until now...but can't hold my tongue anymore. The initial post on this thread is bullshit.

First of all, what makes you think that you are the spokesperson for ANY community/scene?

Second, the idea that the "scene" has anything to do with illegal activity is utter bullshit. Hacking isn't about breaking the law. You have bought into the bullshit FUD inspired definition of hacker that the media has spewed forth from it's unholy bowels.

Third, one can most certainly be a hacker and a participating member of the security industry. They are by NO MEANS mutually exclusive. The idea that they are is more media inspired nonsense.

Finally, put down your copy of 2600 and live in the real world. The "scene" as you so eloquently put it has nothing to do with an "agenda' or politics. The scene is the sum of those who compose it.

[blackwave]

Originally posted by yankee
but I'm always glad to see someone really committed to something.

committed? perhaps the both of you should be committed! cyn0n has yet to answer any question relating as to how all this wonderful la-la-land is going to exist in the real world? Please clarify with something other than "spreading the good word"... leave that to other cults.

[urban]

Degredation over the past five years?

I think perhaps someone's got an overactive sense of old-timer-itis.

Get used to it: no matter how much time you spend doing something, things were always better $YEARS ago.

Kids these days. back in my day...



ObIrrelevantPoint: St. Jude, Walter Jeffries, and my car battery all died this week. It is a sad week indeed.

[h3adrush]

labels are stupid, nothing really matters in the end, drama is lame, and the average person will never make a difference ever, in anyway.

just like chris said the scene is the sum of those who compose it, just as life changes, and people change the "scene" will follow.

wake up and look around you, everything changes. there is no hope.

[[Syntax]]

I dont know about debating all the things being discussed here.
But I do know, that since I became involved in the "scene" it has changed greatly.

Technology has changed, Government view has changed, public awareness has changed.

Years back redboxes were the craze, today satellite cards are the craze. One thing that has not changed. People who have one of these devices are being labeled a "hacker".

The publics view on "hackers" is still blurred by the media, and has been, and probably will continue to be. Because of this trend, true hackers have moved away from the public and more into the private. Evidence of this is apparent with 2600 meetings. We went from knowledgeable individuals, to script kiddies and hanging out.

I feel Defcon has gone the same way.. but this is the exception, the knowledgeable have not quit attending. Defcon has become a co-mingling of newbies and the elite.

Does anyone disagree that the media's incorrect labeling is what is drawing people into the scene? and that the arrival of those with little knowledge is whats killing the scene?

Its evident that groups of people are dividing, based on expertise and knowledge, the cause being an overpopulation of "hackers".

How many times have you seen the term "hacked" used to describe an action?

Ok with that said. Its time for me to haxor some breakfast..

[blackwave]

Originally posted by Syntax-Error
Does anyone disagree that the media's incorrect labeling is what is drawing people into the scene? and that the arrival of those with little knowledge is whats killing the scene?

of course this leads to hatred of the media, pure black hatred for continuing to drag hackers in the mud... all you can do is fight, sending email corrections to the writer, editor and company that continues to publish this garbage shit. Althought they aren't as stupid as one may think... they know what they are doing in regards to making the public read their shittle.

they (the sheeple of today aka the masses at large) must learn that attacker and hacker are not the same... though if everyone knew that, no one would want to read the "bleeding edge" of news aka the mis/dis/un/information of today.

[nocho]

I agree with others that the issue of "scene degradation" is all a matter of perspective. Keep in mind, during the booming late 1990s, the economy was really good and there was work for everyone who wanted it. Literally, all you had to do was show up and you were hired. Really good-paying jobs, too. This led to alot of younger folks taking after-school jobs and young adults doing the 8-5 thing and finding themselves not having as much time to dabble in the "dark arts."

But now, with the current "jobless recovery" and unemployment continuing to climb as more and more people get laid off and displaced by technology and companies out-sourcing and moving overseas (white-collared IT jobs in particular these days), we're returning back to how it was in the late 1980s. Lots of highly-skilled and talented individuals out of work or underemployed, working free-lance or part-time. On the bright side, that means there is more free-time for folks to get back into the scene and contribute to the community on a "pro bono" basis. I really expect Linux to make great leaps in the coming years ahead as well, with so many skilled programmers on the task.

So yeah, don't despair. With every bit of bad news there is always an upside. The decline of the American economy just means more people with less money, having to make more crucial economic choices until things swing back our way. Makes the things we do buy more important, since we no longer get to take them for granted. And we can focus on knowledge-acquisition instead of wealth-acquisition for a change.