9/11 [Discussion area]

[converge]

After posting my own recount in the '9/11' thread and then reading noids recount, I fought off the need to respond in that thread... so I started this one for general discussion of the day, leaving the other thread pure.

I personally feel quite strongly about many of the things noid posted in his last paragraph . I think a lot of people do. Sadly, I think a lot of people don't realize what has actually happened to the country in the past couple years because of the events on September 11th. Our country has forcibly changed the way we live, the way we treat other nations, the way we look at the entire world.. and we let it happen. This is why in my post I mentioned that, in a sense, the terrorists got exactly what they wanted... even down to the usage of 'terrorist' as a household brand for everything but cleaning products. Something so easily pushed onto the masses by government leaders that it clearly denotes the extent of sheeple. Please take a moment to realize just _how much_ power they have taken for themselves in one short stroke... and how much more they can repeat this in upcoming years without a cognizant population to confront this.

In segment of my brain, I can't help but maintain my conspiracy theory from day #02... that our government in some form let happen or even encouraged this event to help bolster their power and political range. It could be complete stupidity on my part, but it is something that has never left my brain.

[renderman]

In segment of my brain, I can't help but maintain my conspiracy theory from day #02... that our government in some form let happen or even encouraged this event to help bolster their power and political range. It could be complete stupidity on my part, but it is something that has never left my brain.

Short of a major miracle, we'll probobly never know *everything* that happened on that day.

I still reserve judgement on what happened, but it bugs me how closely the last 2 years follow Orwell;

1) create an enemy that can never been seen, never be caught, and shows up once a day on a screen in your home/workplace denouncing your way of life.

2) Create a war that will never end, so you can prop up the ecomomy by making useless quantities of zipper teeth (or in this case, stupid playing cards)

3) Tell everyone thier life is better now that they've taken away all those pesky freedoms and things like due process

4) Iraq is an enemy of the US, Iraq has always been the enemy; http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/09/30...regime.change/

Someone elses turn to rant. Just tell me to shut up if I get to high on a soap box

[pezz]

I just dont think such an attack of this size can be permitted even with pre 9/11 security measures.

I'm not one to be a conspiracy theorist but this one takes the cake, this one makes me overanalyze everything that happened that day and who can benefit, who can be behind it, etc........

What is the ultimate goal of all this? Is it a catalyst, or a conspiracy theory?

Please note that this is my own opinion and does not reflect on my current employer, or anythings I might have learned in the past, but to the latter, the theoretical answer would be yes.

[Shatter]

Let's not forget we have created a certain classification of that enemy.

Earth First and PETA certainly havn't been labeled terroriss for their actions, and they are operating domestically. They have been planting bombs, destroying private and public property, and laying waste to the land my setting toxins a blaze (tires for instance).

Too many stange things happened before and after:

In May 01 Bush proposed his Patroit Act. It was shot down.

In July we were buddy buddy with the Taliban, giving them 25 million to keep up the good work on the War on Drugs.

When flight 93 went down, two hill billys were on teh news, talking about teh big WHOOOSH and boom befor ethe plane went down. The interview was cut short, and an hour later they were back on say "Naaaaw... we didn't hear nothing. It just crashed."

......

I have to say I side on the ide athat there wa s afaction in the gov't that wante dthis to hapen, and encouraged it. I was thinking about this at lunch because I can't believe that U.S. intellegence was so stupid as to let this go down.

What makes be laugh more is after 9/11 hearing more support for open boarders.

I have two good theorys about what really went down, both with fairly good documention and technological backing. A lot has to d with statistcal probability:

Can you fly a jet flying full speed into a building? Yes, easy.

Can you fly a jet into a specific building: Very difficult.

Can you fly two jets into two specific targets without guidence? Extreemly difficult.

Could an AWAX use the Telemetry override to guilde a commercial plane? Yes (all commercial jets can be piloted by remote)

Would the deaths of 2000 people be considered an acceptable loss by a regime? Most definatly.

Would the gov't allow a plane to crash into the pentagon or would it us eteh SAM on teh whitehouse to cripple it as much as possible first?

After three crashes, would a 4th plane be allowed to do as it please, it would it be shot dwn to minimalize casualties to those only on board?



Like I said, I don't want to conside rthe idea that teh intellegance community really had no clue about anything going on. That would actually make me very afraid. Conspiracy makes me angry, ignorance is true terror.

[renderman]

In July we were buddy buddy with the Taliban, giving them 25 million to keep up the good work on the War on Drugs.

Actually it was $43 million; http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcol...mns/052201.htm

The Taliban are an enemy of the US, The Taliban have always been an enemy....


EDIT: That article I posted, very quickly left the LA times website just after 9/11 where I'd had it previously bookmarked. A little revisionist?

[converge]

I've actually forgotten quite a bit that I had researched and discovered about the topic. I mostly dropped the idea because it was growingly disconcerting; whenever I would share a fraction of it with anyone, I would either get blank looks or antipatriotic speeches... how could I think the government or a portion of it want to do that?

Why wouldn't they? Consider the estimated current population: 292,043,800. Consider the number of deaths/missing on September 11th: 3,028. Now grab your scientifc calculator... More people die of motor vehicle accidents in a given year than this casualty rate. Most certainly a plausable means to a devious end; there is no greater way to sway public opionion than through emotion, and what other means could have hit more emotion to an entire populous?

The other foremost bothering thing being what shatter mentioned... does our government have more intelligence than they would like US citizens to believe, or less intelligence and potency than we portray as a bullying country to other nations? Obviously our WMD-fu has been lacking :/ Either answer seems uncomforting to my mind.

[Shatter]

The money figure was off teh top of my head. Couldn't remember the specific, just knew we had been funding them.

I ws sitting in a hotel lobby the other day. Young newly wed navy boy talking toa bunch of San Diego Base Biddies...

(you know the type, middle aged and older over weight women who have an opinion on every, clueless about everything, and wear perfume that is a violation of most UN Agreements re: Chem Warefare)

In teh course of conversation he said "Well, ya know, teh whoel 9.11 thing was bad, but it sure was good for teh military and our enlistmen. Hell, I woudln't be ther enow if it wasn't for 9/11. It takes a special person to answer that call to duty"

I wanted to laugh out loud and congratulate him on beinga Craftsman, Snap On, or any other variety of top notch Tool.

They sold he, he bought it, hell, probably paid 150% more than market vale.

The scaey thing was all teh biddies agreed with him. Yes, it's bd, but it made us "come together", made more people join teh military, etc.

This is how these sheeple think. People wonder why I have contempt for the general population.

So fuck it I guess. If it's good enough fr them, so be it. They will believe what they want. Majority rules.

[octalpus]

This is how these sheeple think. People wonder why I have contempt for the general population.

So fuck it I guess. If it's good enough fr them, so be it. They will believe what they want. Majority rules.

These are the same people who have been quoted almost daily in the news since then, with the addition of every new "security feature". They're the ones who say "I'm willing to sacrifice a little freedom if it makes me safer."

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

[teklord]

911 - Depression

I dont know about you all, but 9-11 and today has really depressed me. I am going to be glad when it is over, but i remember waking up that morning and watching on the news that an airplane that crahsed into the world trade center. Then watching the second plane crash into the world trade center tower 2 was even more devistating. I want everyone to remember the lives that were lost on this day, and to know how many families were hurt during this tragedy. Don't ever forget Spetember 11th. 2001. Please take this time today to remember the lives lost. thank you.

- teklord

[murakami]

After two years, I am still sorting out my feelings about 9/11. I worked in the tallest building in Alexandria so I watched them rebuild the Pentagon through a telescope we set up in lunch room. I also visited ground zero 5 months after 9/11, the ground was still smoking. All these things have made me less tolerant, quicker to judge, less trusting.

Conspiracy theories about the events of 9/11 are crap, it gives the current administration and the neoconservative too much credit in the brains department. I believe that the events leading up to 9/11 occurred because our intelligence agencies collect more data than it is possible to analyze and that we had hubris to believe that no one would mount such an attack in the continental US.

[astcell]

without passing judgement....

Bin Laden has been mad since Americans have been on Muslim soil (1991). So they attack.

Now we have more Americans on Muslim soil than ever before, and I don't see an end date when we will come home. As much as that sucks, imagine Osama sitting somewhere realizing that he went about things the wrong way. And he did.

[zziks]

I feel horrible for the families that lost their loved ones in the attack , but more importantly I feel sick from the "patriotism" and propaganda that seems to come with this date I predict that in a few years this day will turn into another stupid American holiday. Don't get me wrong I love it here we have rights and freedoms that others don't , I just get sick of all the media and misinformation that we have to wade through , yes we have a open wound in NY we can see that , now what are we going to do to heal it up ? Invade a couple of middle eastern countries ?
only to do what? help rebuild the country's overinflated ego?


the concept of 9/11 sickens me period.

(( takes a deep breath and steps off the soapbox ))

Zz...

orginally posted in the 9/11 thread

[astcell]

Hey zziks, you are right up the road from me!

Anyway, I agree that some folks seem to be milking 9/11, and I hate that. We need to nuke something and finish this once and for all. Not enough time for a politically correct war. We need closure, and soon!

[astcell]

We need to leave Iraq now. Saddam is no longer a threat. Case closed.

[KeLviN]

it's amazing that we can all remember so vividly our first reactions....


....and how well i think we will remember into the future.


ast; no nukes. the public cant accept even the slightest collateral damage any more... beyond that; the public cant even stand the loss of troops.....

Hey zziks, you are right up the road from me!

Anyway, I agree that some folks seem to be milking 9/11, and I hate that. We need to nuke something and finish this once and for all. Not enough time for a politically correct war. We need closure, and soon!