The Matrix Revolutions [SPOILERS INSIDE]

[Grifter]

Joel Silver claims there will not be a fourth, so you are (hopefully, probably) right.

I am sure that my expectations fed into why I disliked this movie so much. I do know that I am not alone in my feelings. The theater I saw the movie in was packed...when the movie was over and people were filing out, there was initially what I would describe as stunned silence, followed by a lot of overheard snippets of "What the fuck was that shit?"

My sentiments exactly! I'm gonna throw a few more out...and yep...there's gonna be more spoilers so you are warned again:

How the fuck did Seraph survive his encounter with the Smiths (Agents, not Morrissey and Marr)?

Who says he did? I don't recall seeing him after the scene where the Smiths showed up. Only after Neo destroys Smith and all his hoes of destruction.

Why did Smith bleed in his fight with Neo?

When Neo destroyed Smith in the first movie he imprinted part of himself onto Smith. Hence the flying and shit. Apparently part of his human traits went with the superhero shit as well. Smith was unaware of this till he started doubting his ability in the matrix. The same way neo is hurt if he isn't totally convinced he can do something.

If there isn't going to be a fourth, why the little girl's question, and more importatnly the Oracle's answer at the end?

Because Hollywood likes to have the option.

How did the Oracle get back to being the Oracle?

She continued her role after Smith was destroyed, just like everyone else in the matrix.

If Sentinels are so fucking great, how come all you have to do is get 30 meters above them and you can get behind them all of a sudden and they are totally fooled?

I agree. Kind of dumb. They also should have figured out a way to get solar panels above those clouds. Then they wouldn't need humans for shit.

Why was Trinity so stunned by the blue sky? She has been in the matrix, she's seen blue sky before.

First time she has ever seen the real sky in the real world.

I have only yet begun to bitch about this movie...I have more for later.

..........

[renderman]

Boilerplate spolier warning

Went last night to the show in the Imax, which is probobly the best way to see it, or more correctly, hear it (14,000 watts baby!)

I still have'nt had time to process everything, but personally, I liked it. It did'nt fit the whole hollywood cookie cutter formula which was refreshing. I like having to use my imagination a bit to fill in blanks and explain things.

I liked the battle for zion. They were actually pretty good at dispensing the 'oh shit' moments (sentinals coming in like locusts)

A couple things that might helps clarify things.

Play the video game, there's alot of backstory and introduction of characters and situations that will make more sense.

If you have'nt already, go watch the Animatrix.

The Comics on the matrix site are a good read too.

Read Jean Baudrillard's 'Simulacra and Simulation'. A really heady book about the nature and perceptions of reality. The Brothers use it's ideas extensivly in the series (The desert of the real is explained in the first 5 pages)

I liked it. If you did'nt, that's too bad.

[kallahar]

I thought it was great. Sure there are unanswered questions, but do you really want a movie to be blatently obvious? The first movie was a mystery, the second was (supposed) to be a love story, and the third is an action. Think of them as three acts in a play, not as individual movies.

Trinity isn't "stunned" or surprised by the sight of the blue sky, it's just the first time she's ever seen the real one (indeed, the only living human to see it).

On the whole power thing, maybe Zion figured it out wrong? Those power lines running to the fields might be running TO them, not from them. Anyone who knows what thermodynamics is knows that the energy humans give off has to come from somewhere, namely stored sunhine. It's more likely that the machines use humans (and the matrix) for inspiration and the humans interpreted the power lines wrong.

Neo's powers outside the matrix weren't explained, but they fit with the philisophical side of the movies; ie karma, godly powers, etc. Since they left it open for interpretation it was FAR better than if they had added some cheesy line about mito-chlorien bullshit.

And as far as action flicks go with lots of CG, I think this was by far the best integration I've ever seen.

[Chris]

..........

Grfiter...Seraph shows up at the end with the little girl. He is the one that asks the Oracle if she knew all along.

Still not buying the Agent Smith bleeding explanation, but I will say if that was the ONLY problem I had with the movie I would be more than happy to overlook it.

Hollywood could have ended this and still had the "option" for a future sequel. The little girl could easily be the next "One" or they could say that Neo has been reinserted into the matrix, any number of things. As it stands, the tag line should have been "For every beginning there is an ending...and for only 8 more dollars you may find the ending to this one when we put the next film out."

As for the Oracle returning to being the Oracle...I can accept that. They do have the"deja-vu" scene that I guess represents a resetting of the matrix. So that one I will give you.

The Trinity seeing the sky for the first time in the real world argument is probably what they were getting at, I agree...but it seems kind of transparent and played out to me.



Renderman---I WANTED to like this movie. I too feel bad that I didn't. I am not that hard to please (hell I dig both Episode I and Episode II) but if you use the middle film of a trilogy to set a lot of things up, then don't conclude them, there is a problem as far as I am concerned. I am all for a movie that makes you think...that is one of the reasons i liked Reloaded as much as I did. There was a lot left to think about, to digest, to disect. This movie asked questions, but didn't really provide direction to get the answers.

[renderman]

As for the Oracle returning to being the Oracle...I can accept that. They do have the"deja-vu" scene that I guess represents a resetting of the matrix. So that one I will give you.

Renderman---I WANTED to like this movie. I too feel bad that I didn't. I am not that hard to please (hell I dig both Episode I and Episode II) but if you use the middle film of a trilogy to set a lot of things up, then don't conclude them, there is a problem as far as I am concerned. I am all for a movie that makes you think...that is one of the reasons i liked Reloaded as much as I did. There was a lot left to think about, to digest, to disect. This movie asked questions, but didn't really provide direction to get the answers.

If Smith was 'Infecting' other software (i.e. other programs and people), when he was dis-infected, all the 'software' would return to normal (the Oracle, the little girl, and a few thousand others). A reasonable explanation for the return of everyone.

As for not concluding things: How many movies generate this amount of intelligent conversation?

As for everyones questions about Neo's powers outside the matrix, I have a bit of conjecture to throw out there. Just tell me to STFU if Its too unreasonable:

The machines are an Artificial Intelligence. In the last two thousand years, look at what wonders and attrocities our intelligence has created.

The Matrix is supposed to be around eight hundred years after the birth of AI. You'd think that with machine precision they would have discovered more about intelligence, emotion, and the mysteries of the mind, faster than we ever could?

The Matrix is not a computer program of 1's and 0's, but a program of life. Since Neo is and eventuality of the rogue elements of the matrix (think about the Architects speech), it's reasonable to wager that he has a much deeper grasp on the powers of the mind (not just intelligence) than anyone else (even the machines). His powers are a manifestation of the potential of the mind.

Just my $0.02 CAN ($0.007486 US at the Noon cash rate 11/6/03)

[KeLviN]

all in all, i liked it. yes there were some things that were unanswered... but i never got the feeling that they were leaving it open for a fourth. the main 2 characters are out of the picture, peace will reign for many years, and the matrix tape backup explains why everyone came back in the end.

a ships emp isnt enough to take out an entire city of the machine, even assuming that this is the ONLY city on earth.


the only major probem i had with ALL the movies:

cows.

the machines could have run just as well off millions of cows as it could humans. a cow matrix consists of one high rez blade of grass, copied and pasted infinatly in all directions. i could code a cow matrix. coded in 4 bit color and running off a gameboy. a cow would never "refuse" a grass matrix. there could be no cow "the one". it just seems infiniantly easier to use bovine power. why does the machine have this NEED to use people? or electric eels?!

can anyone explain to me why cows wouldnt have worked?

[renderman]

cows.

the machines could have run just as well off millions of cows as it could humans. a cow matrix consists of one high rez blade of grass, copied and pasted infinatly in all directions. i could code a cow matrix. coded in 4 bit color and running off a gameboy. a cow would never "refuse" a grass matrix. there could be no cow "the one". it just seems infiniantly easier to use bovine power. why does the machine have this NEED to use people? or electric eels?!

can anyone explain to me why cows wouldnt have worked?

Would you pay $12-16 to watch a kung fu fighting cow watching the grass grow?

[spahkle]

.. some thoughts

-Seraph didn't survive his encounter with the Smith Agents (he was absorbed), but like the rest of the co-opted programs, he was returned to his prior state after Smith was removed from the Matrix. From the sequence of the Smith agents being rm -rf'd/cleaned out/whatever, apparently Smith controlled a large portion of the other programs/humans in the Matrix and it was "reset" (i.e. cat sequence deja'vu) at the end.

-The little girl was an interesting conundrum. Offspring from two "programs" (actually A.I. so possible?). Her father was a power control program and her mother was an Interactive? program. Thus, she could modify the Sun sequence at the end?

-In the movie Smith calls the Oracle "mom" due to her roll in Neo's becoming the One and imprinting Smith. From the Oracle's discussion in the third movie, Neo was becoming more powerful as he understood more of his choices.

-The Oracle states that Smith is the counter equation to Neo. As Neo became stronger, Smith had to as well to continue balancing the equation. Each of these strengths took different forms.

-I don't think a fourth is on the way. The reference may be that Neo's consciousness has been recorded into the Matrix.

more thoughts later...

[murakami]

Would you pay $12-16 to watch a kung fu fighting cow watching the grass grow?

Hey, "Kung Pow, Enter the Fist" was a hella cool movie.

[Shatter]

My turn

I liked it.

I think it made Reloaded much better.

In an article I have from Entertainment weekly, the brothers state that reloaded/revolutions was originally a sngle movie, that the studio insisted the break into two parts becase they would not tolerate a 4hour movie (note the problems Peter Jackson had with LOTR, and why each movie is 2hrs and 59 minutes exactly, with TT having an additional hour of extra footage) so they made a single movie in two parts. The article went on to say that later they want to do the final movie, "Resolutions". The was it was implied, none of the main characters would be in it.

I liked the comment about the Oracle finding a new "shell".

I didn't mind the trainman. It made sense. This was how the Oracle had been getting her "children" in the first movie. It also still leads me to thinking that "the one" is more of a program than a human. If he bought noodles from a program in teh matrix, then why couldn't a program be eating those noodles. Neo went into the matrix without being jacked in. Perhaps neo was a rouge program inserted into the wetware upon creation...

I liked the war in Zion. It was ugly, people died, lots of metal and explosions. It was very obvious that there was no way for them to survive the attack.

Humorously enough, Smith became the virus he loathed so much in the first movie. The irony wasn't lost on me.

I would like to watch both movies bakc to back without inturruption, as one movie in one sitting. I'd be even happier with a re-edit by teh brothers to remove anything that was there just for the cliffhanger effect.

As one person said, a lot ghost & niobes stuff was in the game. Like why her craft was where it was when they found them. For those that didn't play the game, oh well. People migt cry about having to play a game to get the whole story, but that's how the brothers wanted it. It's their story.

There is a Matrix MMORPG thats' comming out. Here's the link
It's being developed by Monolith Productions. If you're not familiar with them, this is the company that brought us Blood 1&2, Shogo, and most recently Tron 2.0 which is a FANTASTIC game using teh Tron licence. Thus far, it's the best movie licence tie in to date. Becaus eof that, I have high expectatins for Matrix Online, and it may make me forget about Neocron

[static_cast]

I thought the movie overall was pretty good. I think the fight scene with Smith could have been better. Flying around each other in circles and stuff wasnt to exciting.

As for a Matrix 4, they should just have Trinity kicking ass for 2 hours. I'd pay 9 bux to see that.


SPOILER



One thing that had me confused was when the oracle asked the architect if the rest of the minds would be freed. Why would the machines just hand over their only power source?

maybe i missed something...

[renderman]

One thing that had me confused was when the oracle asked the architect if the rest of the minds would be freed. Why would the machines just hand over their only power source?
maybe i missed something...

She meant the ones who wanted to leave (on a subconcious level), would be 'flushed' as Neo was, to join Zion.

[kree]

I really wanted to go see this movie cause I heard that it was really good, but now I just want to see it so I can see how bad it really sucks. A catch 22 I guess.

[spahkle]

Hey, "Kung Pow, Enter the Fist" was a hella cool movie.

gah.. milk spears....

[nulltone]

I didn't mind the trainman.

I'm not an expert on theology, but does the trainman/trainstation have anything to do with the River Styx? Or maybe Purgatory.

Did anyone pick up on the symbolism of the nightclub/dante’s hell? What about the symbolism of neo’s blindness. And Judas?

It also still leads me to thinking that "the one" is more of a program than a human. If he bought noodles from a program in teh matrix, then why couldn't a program be eating those noodles. Neo went into the matrix without being jacked in. Perhaps neo was a rouge program inserted into the wetware upon creation...

I agree about Neo being a program. I found that the third film blurred the lines between programs and humans. Smith was a program, yet existed (through replicating himself) outside the matrix. Neo, the opposite of Smith (undoubtedly a program), must therefore be a program.
The definition of a program became confusing in the third film. It makes you wonder, who exactly is a program? Somewhere in the film, it is mentioned that a program is created with a specific purpose. It was also mentioned that once this purpose has been fulfilled, the program is terminated. Can it be assumed that those who fulfill their purpose and die are programs? Neo? Trinity? Because Morpheous and others do not die (even though their purpose is quite vital to Neo), are they not programs?
Also, the lines between the real world and program world are quite blurred.

One last thing, which I found very funny. Towards the end, when Neo goes to the machine city and speaks to the machine god (if I can call him that), did anyone think to themselves “Deus Ex Machina”. I’m no greek theatre expert, but that seemed very ironic.

However, I am very glad that not everything was easily explained. Leaving some parts of the film open to interpretation is good.

Becaus eof that, I have high expectatins for Matrix Online, and it may make me forget about Neocron

Hey! My name is in the credits of that game. But I agree with you, it was a major letdown (Neocron).