unix or linux

[avsniperman]

There might have already been a post on this but I'm in a hurry right now. I was wondering, I am just getting into hacking and stuff and have two harddrives on my computer. What would be the best to run on my second harddrive for learning, UNIX or Linux. I figure whichever runs the best with cable internet would be the best for me. Thanks.

[Shatter]

If you like life handed to you nice and easy: RH 9.0

If you want something more porporate, a little more difficult, but rewarding: Open/Free/Net BSD (Unix)


My $1.25

There's nothing wrong with either, its' just preference.

I have found that *BSD translates to commercial (eg Sun) a little smoother than Linux varieties. Ex- Command line switchs

[GodMinusOne]

Slackware Linux is my distro of choice. If you're new to Linux, Slackware may be confusing at first, but you had said that you'd like to "learn", and Slackware would be perfect for this. However, if you want your hand held through the Linux experience, you may decide to go with RedHat as Shatter suggested, or possibly even Mandrake. If you're really serious about learning, try Slackware and stay in shell for the first little while. By staying in shell you'll learn more about the commands and how Linux works; not just going into a GUI such as KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox and just using point and click. Good Luck

[kidlinux]

What UNIX would you run on a home computer? SCO? LOL

[noid]

If you want an honest-to-god UNIX on your home PC, check out Solaris x86..Have plenty of RAM handy..Or if you are in the mood for pain, get some old hardware and build a AUX or a AIX PS/2 box.

[Chris]

If you want an honest-to-god UNIX on your home PC, check out Solaris x86..Have plenty of RAM handy..Or if you are in the mood for pain, get some old hardware and build a AUX or a AIX PS/2 box.

The biggest problem with x86 is getting X to work with a decent video card. If you have an older card on a PC with decent RAM then it kicks ass...if you have a newer card, be prepared for headaches.

[bascule]

The biggest problem with x86 is getting X to work with a decent video card. If you have an older card on a PC with decent RAM then it kicks ass...if you have a newer card, be prepared for headaches.

You can always use XFree86 instead of OpenWindows...

[noid]

ya, first thing I usualy do on a Solaris box is get gcc running and start building all my freeware tools vs. using SUNs patented CrapWare(tm) Utilities.

[Chris]

ya, first thing I usualy do on a Solaris box is get gcc running and start building all my freeware tools vs. using SUNs patented CrapWare(tm) Utilities.

Yeah, I am pretty sure the "W" in SUNWxxx stands for "Wouldn't it be nice if this package wasn't such a piece of shit"

[bascule]

ya, first thing I usualy do on a Solaris box is get gcc running and start building all my freeware tools vs. using SUNs patented CrapWare(tm) Utilities.

Heh, that's all well and good for Solaris/x86 I suppose, but on Solaris/sparcv9 gcc produces enormous turds of binaries.

Personally I'd rather the gimps maintaining these packages didn't make horrendous Linux-specific assumptions, like that /bin/sh is bash and /usr/bin/lex is flex

(ed: And by far the worst, assuming make is GNU make)

[Chris]

<Rant Against My Favorite Operating System>

All true...but Sun has left anyone who has any concept of Security with no choice but to compile everything from source and no longer rely on the Sun(tm) packages. Now, you may ask "Chris, how can you make such a sweeping and ludicrous statemnt?"

Well, constant reader, allow me to expound on that. Sun has gone to total crap in the patch release department. They are taking weeks and sometimes months (if at all) to provide patches for THEIR packages for well documented vulnerabilities that Linux and other Unix vendors are patching almost immediately. I will give two examples.

First, Sendmail. The address parser BO was identified 3/29/03. ALL Linux distros, the BSD family, IRIX, HP-UX, and AIX had patches available the day the vuln was released. Sun's patch was made available 4/10/03. TWO WEEKS? Any admin worth five cents had already compiled from the sendmail.org source.


Next, the OpenSSH Remote Memory Buffer Management Vulnerability. For those that don't know, Solaris 9's SunSSH is basically just OpenSSH with a spiffy Sun banner. SunSSH is vulnerable to this vulnerability, released 9/16/03. Sun's patch available...10/08/03. Again, any admin who's head is not firmly planted in the sand has already replaced SunSSH with OpenSSH...which was patched same day (and again the next day for those that remember).

I love Solaris. I am a big fan of the Sparc processor, but Sun's complete lack of attention to critical vulnerabilities that affect PAYING customers, while everyone else, including FREE operating systems act immediately is negligent. Hell...Microsoft does a better job.

</Rant Against My Favorite Operating System>

[bascule]

All true...but Sun has left anyone who has any concept of Security with no choice but to compile everything from source and no longer rely on the Sun(tm) packages.

Yeah, it's really better to just not install any of the Sun's network service packages to begin with, and to create a JumpStart image preconfigured with a sanatized installation configuration. I build my own ProFTPD and OpenSSH packages and get the rest off sunfreeware via pkg-get. I also disable everything (setting Sendmail to listen locally only) except portmap, dtlogin, X, rstatd, ssh, and if the user requests it, ftp.

Now, you may ask "Chris, how can you make such a sweeping and ludicrous statemnt?"

I think any Solaris administrators here have run into the exact same headaches.

Sun has gone to total crap in the patch release department. They are taking weeks and sometimes months (if at all) to provide patches for THEIR packages for well documented vulnerabilities that Linux and other Unix vendors are patching almost immediately.

I've certainly become lax on my patching. I used to have a script that patched every system here each time a new Recommended patch cluster was rolled out, but unfortunately automated patching under Solaris doesn't work too well as many of the patches only apply in single user mode, require a reboot, or otherwise require manual intervention in order to apply. I tried installing PatchPro, which is nothing but an enormous Java turd. It doesn't even bother checking for adequate space before it begins downloading patches, and if it fills up the filesystem it just goes into an infinite error loop. Not to mention the configuration is ludicrously arcane, and requires hand manipulation of the JVM in order to install SSL keys and so forth (which expired, and had to be reinstalled). So I've given up on PatchPro, and I'm back to ordinary patch clusters. I usually get around to patching the systems here maybe once every two months now.

I love Solaris. I am a big fan of the Sparc processor, but Sun's complete lack of attention to critical vulnerabilities that affect PAYING customers, while everyone else, including FREE operating systems act immediately is negligent. Hell...Microsoft does a better job.

Microsoft's Software Update Services are godly. Deploying patches across a network has never been easier.

[avsniperman]

thanks

Thanks guys for the help. I'll probably check out Red Hat, Slackware or Mandrake after I read up a bit on each. Should I get a book on how to use them before I just jump into it or should I just teach myself?

[skroo]

If you want an honest-to-god UNIX on your home PC, check out Solaris x86..Have plenty of RAM handy..Or if you are in the mood for pain, get some old hardware and build a AUX or a AIX PS/2 box.

A/UX is asking for pain. Minimum spec is a Mac SE/30 (an SE won't run it) with an 80MB HDD. The install requires that MacOS be present and bootable on the machine, and from what I remember when I tried it, it's not user-friendly. Apple no longer supports it, and finding support on the web can be difficult.

If you like playing with package dependencies, get an SGI Indy or O2 (really, go for the O2 - it's a more usable machine these days) and install Irix from scratch. You'll make friends with `conflicts' and `go', the commandline Irix installation tools. Irix is very usable, though, if you're a Unix neophyte.

AIX isn't too horrible to install, at least not from 4.3 upwards. Avoid any non-PPC RS/6000, though - a model 7011 with 64MB of RAM is pretty much the minimum you can get away with and still do anything useful, but it will be slow. And remember: a model 7012 is not a better machine than a 7011. Do your research before you eBay.

Solaris x86 is a good trainer, but like noid said, have lots of RAM ready for it. It likes 256MB, and 512MB is better. The one thing the x86 version won't teach you is familiarity with Sun hardware - if you want to do that, Ultras are starting to become affordable second-hand.

[newbb]

Whats the difference between solaris 8 and 9? I am considering the freeware to put on my old pc as I would like to try it out.

Also a side form differences what would you recommend for a novice redhat guy (as i am)