new technology

There is alot of ways RFID can and cannot be implemented into Ipv6, you CAN use RFID if you are a manufacturer of a piece of hardware but you cannot hijack ipv6 packets, so even if you set up a man in the middle attack to capture any traffic, its worthless because:

1. the packets have end to end encryption
2. based on the encryption, you have no idea what are the tags on the RFID chips.
3. ipv6 has some type of authentication(i dont know exactly what) that lets you know that the packets come from the actual source and not someone acting as the source i.e. IP spoofing.

You can use this as a means of authorizing purchases and whatnot, your imagination is the limit.

and yes NAT will still work but they will eventually be phased out.

Wow! Thank you, Oversight! I appreciate your informing me more completely about RFID. This gives me more information about how it all integrates with IPV6/RSIP. *me going to ground and doing more investigation* *PERK* perhaps, if I am able to get this together, I will have a nice preso for my local 2600...

RocketGrl

RSIP is going to be implemented first I believe, because it makes the transition from ipv4 to ipv6 easier. As for RFID, there is no reason to try to use it when you have ipv6, sure you can try to be malicious and whatnot but ipv6's packets will reject them. The documentation on RFID through ipv6 is still very abstract but nonetheless, you can create theories on how to take advantage of it, and why it won't work.

This little discussion is great, I have a new topic to add onto my paper that Im writing.

RSIP will be used as a replacement for NAT in the IPV6 world though NAT will still work. RSIP has the P2P easy functionality that NAT currently lacks. Having said that, your comments pique my interest. Totally unfair! Care to contact me off line to discuss? I am putting together a paper for a near term con to discuss. I would be interested in your viewpoint on this.

Thanks much, Oversight.

RocketGrl

There are 3.4 * 10^38 possible IPv6 addresses. That's enough to give the majority of atoms in the Earth their own IPv6 address. I don't think we'll be running out any time soon.

Sorry, I am late on this thread. Was out of country until recently.

RSIP protocol may be used with IPV6 similar to how NAT is used with IPV4. The difference appears to be that to use IPV6 effectively, an RSIP server will have to be implemented at each site. These servers will have the capability to, upon request, obtain and provide a distinct public IP address with associated approved TCP/UDP ports. This will allow for easy P2P connectivity, even to disparate sites using the same discrete internal IP's. For the specific application being discussed here, effective application of RFID tracking through IPV6 will depend upon, other things, the total amount of concurrent connections that the OS IP stack will allow at any given time. I have been looking at RFID/RSIP/IPV6 only for a short while here, so if I am totally off track, someone yank me up please.

RocketGrl

[spahkle]

An interesting note (if I remember what I read correctly), bar codes were around for a couple decades before they became heavily used. The impetus behind wide spead acceptance came from large retail chains that wanted an easier way to track inventory. Agreeing with Noid, rfid will happen the same way. One of the networks I support is in a Distribution Center. It is highly automated and dependent on barcodes. This will change the entire system, and while it may take a while for manufacturers to stop barcodes entirely, they won't want to maintain BOTH types of systems... which means bye-bye barcodes.

Earlier posts about rfid on the forum have this to say:

http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,58006,00.html

as listed in BlackWaves post:

http://forum.defcon.org/showthread.p...highlight=rfid

[Siviak]

Anyone printed up any yellow FREE SATAN shirts yet?

HA...I'm on it!

[Shatter]

There are 3.4 * 10^38 possible IPv6 addresses. That's enough to give the majority of atoms in the Earth their own IPv6 address. I don't think we'll be running out any time soon.

IPv6 will be encoded into and RFID and implanted into your right hand and forhead. Everyone on teh planet earth will get this. It will be your SS#, IP, DL#, etc etc.

IT'S THE MOTHER FUCKING APOCALYSE I TELL YA!!!


(Oh ya.... the red bull is kicking in now....)


Anyone printed up any yellow FREE SATAN shirts yet?

[bascule]

it would rapidly deplete the IPv6 address space if everything used one as a unique ID

There are 3.4 * 10^38 possible IPv6 addresses. That's enough to give the majority of atoms in the Earth their own IPv6 address. I don't think we'll be running out any time soon.

[bascule]

Anyone have any ideas or links on how integrated RFID is with IPv6? Aren't they are both 64-bit UIDs?

IPv6 addresses are 128 bits long

[skroo]

Check out 'RFID tags: Big Brother in small packages', by Declan McCullagh, over on CNET.

I'd be wary of anything presented by him. He's not well-known for well-researched or unbiased reporting.

Anyone have any ideas or links on how integrated RFID is with IPv6? Aren't they are both 64-bit UIDs?

No idea, but offhand it doesn't strike me that there even needs to be a relationship - a) it would rapidly deplete the IPv6 address space if everything used one as a unique ID; b) since collection of the UID is at the point of acquisition, it makes more sense to treat the point of acquisition as an aggregator - if you know its geographic location, you know the movement of the item being tracked. Think Where's George? only you're automatically opted-in (and without any sort of opt-out I can see available).

What really scares the hell out of me are biometric tracking implants and biometric passports.

[BackatchaBandit]

Check out 'RFID tags: Big Brother in small packages', by Declan McCullagh, over on CNET.

Another informative, well referenced article can be found here.

Anyone have any ideas or links on how integrated RFID is with IPv6? Aren't they are both 64-bit UIDs?

Does a solution to the world energy crisis rest in a dynamo, a huge elastic band, a shovel and directions to George Orwell's grave?

[Shatter]

Problem is these RFIDs are so tiny they can put'em ANYWHERE... including as dust in air that later, with a generic scan, somebody can track where you've been.

The other thing is that marketing and advertisers want consumer goods to be as traceable as IP packets.

The old example I used to use for web hits was "with classic billboard advertising, you don't know down to an exact number ho many people viewed the ad, with the web you do. It's statistical data people never had before, and now they're having brain overload from it." Same thing will happen next.

Back in the 70's everything thought bar codes was the mark of the beast.... they're not. If RFDs are the mark of the beast, then Walmart IS the beast... I fucking hate them.


Check out what Radio FreeK america has been doing with walmart...

[mrugly]

they were saying that Walmart has given all of it's suppliers to the end of 04 to have this on their product
(thats going to walmart) This will make grocery shopping a breeze ,and the grocery clerks can work for a chip maker

[mindstorm]

If I'm not mistaken, Nintendo has been using a very similiar process to this to keep track of its inventory for quite some time. That way they can know exactly what is going on each truck, ect.

I seem to recall reading something about that in EGM a while back, interesting thing about that is they started with the electronic inventorying because something like 15% of their product was being "lost" in transit.

[Xodia]

If I'm not mistaken, Nintendo has been using a very similiar process to this to keep track of its inventory for quite some time. That way they can know exactly what is going on each truck, ect.

[noid]

Sounds like those damn RFID chips. Neat in principal, but you know everything from breakfast cereal to cars are going to be comming with those things in the next few years.