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**highwizard** · December 30, 2003, 02:06

Originally posted by InCcure

I was wondering as to the legitamacy of something I heard. On the TechTV
network, a show named, Spy School suggested that the current versions of PGP encryption has a "backdoor" or some kind for said three-letter-agencies. A member of the shows cast, David Shayler ex-MI5 , revealed that any version release after 5.0 was subject. After a bit of time the well known cast of The Screen Savers refuted this statement, "We don't know where these guys get thier information, they are produced over-seas in Europe, but they are wrong, and we fully support PGP.", says Leo Laporte.

In searching this site I noticed no talk of this specifically, and in seeign the advid use of PGP and crypto, related products, by members here, was wondering as to your thoughts on this. David has the background to support his remarks, this is why I find it so intresting. (not that it matters, but I briefly googled PGP v.5 -, and couldn't find anything.) Who is right and how can either side be proven. Also what would be the next best thing as an alternative to PGP encryption?

Thank you in advance for any thoughts, response, or advice.

:D

MI5 is not a three letter Agency, it's a Two Letter and One number Agency or a Three Character Agency. A three letter Agency would be the NSA or DoD or DHS or FBI or DIA or CIA ect.... Please get it right next time.

**bascule** · December 30, 2003, 02:06

Originally posted by InCcure

A member of the shows cast, David Shayler ex-MI5 , revealed that any version release after 5.0 was subject.

Considering the PGP 5 source code is available for download, I'd say David Shayler is full of shit.

Also what would be the next best thing as an alternative to PGP encryption?

There's always GPG...

**jesse** · December 30, 2003, 02:20

hmm, who do we trust? this guy from MI-5, who's on a TV show or the hundreds cryptologists, mathemeticians and computer scientists from around the world who've worked extensively with the source code for PGP?

Shit, even Leo Lapporte of the screen savers knows what's up.

Hell, even if it was Bruce Schneier saying that PGP was compromised, i'd still be skeptical.

**converge** · December 30, 2003, 17:40

ok... whether on not compromised, who knows... validity of the guys statements, who knows. The US government definately has the ability to decrypt PGP encoded messages. If you don't believe this, then kudos to your invisible safety blanket. ...so use it at your discretion. ...and GPG has had its own implementation issues... so to rely on any one source fully, just a bad idea.

I think a more important thing is being missed here.... since when does anyone give (1/2)^64 A FLYING FUCK what Leo Laporte thinks? Since when has TechTV become an authority on anything except boners for LAN gamers? Come on guys...

I trust the opinion of 100 cryptologists far less than the opinion of one really good one... sad thing is that the one cryptonerd I trusted is already pwned by the USoA.

**jesse** · December 30, 2003, 18:20

saying that the government has better crypto is like saying that christian rock is better than mainstream rock.

**astcell** · December 30, 2003, 21:21

Originally posted by highwizard

MI5 is not a three letter Agency, it's a Two Letter and One number Agency or a Three Character Agency. A three letter Agency would be the NSA or DoD or DHS or FBI or DIA or CIA ect.... Please get it right next time.

If you're going to jump down his throat at least be correct yourself, et cetera is abbreviated etc., not ect. :D :D :D

I wonder if FBI is an agency, no -- it is a bureau.
DoD is a Department.
UPS is a Service.

Do you even count the A in agency as one of the three letters, sort of like VIN Number.

Okay, time to get a real job....

**murakami** · December 30, 2003, 21:34

Originally posted by astcell

UPS is a Service.

UPS is a company. USPS is a government subsidy.

**astcell** · December 30, 2003, 22:32

If UPS is a company, then why is it not called UPC?

**InCcure** · December 30, 2003, 23:26

Thnx for the input guys, think my view is set in the right direction now. BTW Highwizard, I don't believe I reffered to MI5 as beign a three-letter-agency..., but just for beign so beligerant. ** places curse on highwizard ** **mumbles something along the lines of "will have spontaneous diareha, next time he attempts to rub-one-out"..** :D

p f***n s, i know i'm incoherant, and lack the marvleous skill of spelling, and grammer.

**Shatter** · December 31, 2003, 12:16

Think about this...

What's easier to do:

Come up witha universal crack for PGP?

Tell everyone in the wld you've done it and using it is pointless case we'l read it any way so save us teh trouble old chap and just plain text everything, jolly good eh?

Rumors of PGP having a backdoor have been circulating since it came out... old news.

As for TechTV, I fully support them and what they do, especially Leo and Patrick. Hell, Patrick has been to the last 3 defcons. He's a really great guy, and very into and supportive of the scene. They do a really good job preseting information give the format, broad audience scope, and time frame they have to present information.

Anyone who starts in with the "Their information is basic, lame and for noobs" just remember: At some point that information was new to you, you wern't born knowing this. Somebody watching the show is watching for the first time, and it's new to them, and they are becomming a smarter, better person who will ask one less noob question down the road.

More power to them.

**highwizard** · December 31, 2003, 15:01

Originally posted by astcell

If you're going to jump down his throat at least be correct yourself, et cetera is abbreviated etc., not ect. :D :D :D

I wonder if FBI is an agency, no -- it is a bureau.
DoD is a Department.
UPS is a Service.

Do you even count the A in agency as one of the three letters, sort of like VIN Number.

Okay, time to get a real job....

:D :D :D
Before I whip you back into your childhood with me superior intellect read this: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Agency

a·gen·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jn-s)
n. pl. a·gen·cies
1) The condition of being in action; operation.
2) The means or mode of acting; instrumentality.
3) A business or service authorized to act for others: an employment agency.
4) An administrative division of a government or international body.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
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Agency

n 1: an administrative unit of government; "the Central Intelligence Agency"; "the Census Bureau"; "Office of Management and Budget"; "Tennessee Valley Authority" [syn: government agency, bureau, office, authority] 2: a business that serves other businesses 3: the state of being in action or exerting power; "the agency of providence"; "she has free agency" 4: the state of serving as an official and authorized delegate or agent [syn: representation, delegacy] 5: how a result is obtained or an end is achieved; "a means of communcation"; "an example is the best agency of instruction"; "the true way to success" [syn: means, way]

Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
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**InCcure** · December 31, 2003, 22:24

Man, I'm sure your time could be better spent rereading my post, and realizing, I used ex-MI5 to describe D. Shayler, and in no way shape or for relate it with the term "three-letter-agencies". I do appreciate the support though, cause when I do fuck up, thats inevitable, I know you'll be there holding my hand. :D

Shatter thnx. I will openly admit when it comes to encryption specifics I am a "noob", but what I do choose to do is come here, and hopefully learn from "the expereienced" instead of some other newb. It does suck that any questions one poses, are so commonly subject to bashing. what is ironic though is that newb-bashing is such fun at times.

**termi** · January 1, 2004, 06:52

shatter : couldnt have said it better myself, i thought were were past the time when there were people that considered themself 'better' or, i shudder to say this 'l33ter' then others, personally as soon as someone says that of themselves, i lose all respect for them, and they start again from scratch. this is just my opinion though.

**astcell** · January 1, 2004, 10:56

Originally posted by highwizard

:D :D :D
Before I whip you back into your childhood with me superior intellect read this...

I should have noted that I was going by the description said agencies gave themselves. An ironic one is that the IRS is a "Service."

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