Programming

[Gh00st]

This is a really good step to take. If you understand this, you should really do this first before jumping into C/C++ or anything of that sort.

I would suggest PASCAL as your first.

Reasons:

1) It's EASY.
2) Pascal has diffrent levels of code built off of it.
3) TurboPascal
4) Then you can move on to Delphi.

I look at learning in steps. Start small then get big. Pascal to Delphi is what im saying. Both similar yet not. You get more advanced as you go. Delphi is a very good ending result to what you have learned. Not only is it a good WINDOWS app lang but now it has been ported to LINUX. Thus you can program from windows to linux.

Learning C/C++ could be a bit to much at first. I think getting the basics of C is pretty smooth and easy. Just that when you do pascal-turbopascal-delphi you learn 3 diffrent steps from windows to linux.

Refrence: Check out Borlands website for free pascal-delphi stuff.

..: :..

[noid]

another pascal programmer! I didnt know there were any left. I too am a pascal programmer, fuck of a lot of good it does me though.

[Gh0Ost]

another pascal programmer! I didnt know there were any left. I too am a pascal programmer, fuck of a lot of good it does me though.

Well it's just one lang, that's why you learn more. It's a good starting tool. Anyways Delphi is far from usless. Not unless you're just looking to get paid for using these tools. Delphi does have much more calling than pascal.

..: :..

[bascule]

another pascal programmer! I didnt know there were any left. I too am a pascal programmer, fuck of a lot of good it does me though.

The inability to do anything practical with Pascal seems to be incredibly demotivating to Pascal programmers. You're forced to learn another language before you can begin to write something remotely useful.

Though to give some credit to Nickles Worthless, using := for assingment and = for comparison is *far* more sensible than C's = for assignment and == for comparison.

Most C compilers will give warnings if you attempt to assign a variable inside a branch statement (and implicitly check that the assigned value is nonzero) without placing an additonal, redundant set of parens around the entire expression...

e.g. if(handle = fetch_item(foo)) as opposed to if((handle = fetch_item(foo)))

All because C uses a stupid operator for comparison...

Compare this to comparable Pascal code:

if handle := fetch_item(foo) then ...

In this case the syntax is unambiguous. (although possibly invalid, I'm afraid I don't know Pascal well enough to be certain)

I still advocate the C -> C++ route. Virtually every useful language nowadays uses C-derived syntax, but generally littered with exceptions. Perl comes to mind, with nonsense like ===. Then there's Java's >>>, or System.out.println("foo" + bar); Learning any of these languages first will teach you the exceptions and not the rule, which only makes transitioning to different languages all the more difficult. I'd also say transitioning to a weakly typed or dynamically typed language to a strongly typed language is much more difficult than the other way around.

[k3ym4st3r]

hey

I know it is a stupid question, but: why do people use always "foobar" as an example when they need a word??
About the programming lenguage: I'm starting to program, and I'm using Python, I don't know if it's only based on misinformation about other lenguages or what, but I find it easier to get into, besides it's recommended for Unix/Linux apps, right?... and I'm learning Linux as well so I tought it would be a good starting point...
As many of you have said, it depends on what you want to do with the lenguage...

[TheCotMan]

I know it is a stupid question, but: why do people use always "foobar" as an example when they need a word??[chop]

There are many places for it to be cited, but the one that I seem to recall is this:

foobar from FOOBAR from phonetic of FUBAR from F.U.B.A.R. from
Fucked Up Beyond All Recall [RFC states R should be "Repair"]

Citations include people from military and was also included in "Lethal Weapon" and has been broken into foo and bar and used in various Books like the O'Reilly and Associaties early Perl books and many others.

I welcome other ideas on word origin for foobar.

[Edit: Added content above in [ ] and below]

Also, in the early Perl books from O'Reilly, you see references to "yoyodine" or "Yoyodyne" and names of characters/people. Many of these are taken Directly from Buckaroo Bonsai and his Adventures across the 8th Dimention. (A film from the 80's with a small cult following which is a bit corny by todays' standards.)

There is an alternate review of the use and meanings of foo bar which seems to concur:

...
When used in connection with `bar' it [foobar] is generally traced to the
WW II era Army slang acronym FUBAR (`Fucked Up Beyond All
Repair'), later modified to foobar. Early versions of the Jargon
File [JARGON] interpreted this change as a post-war
bowdlerization, but it now seems more likely that FUBAR was itself
a derivative of `foo' perhaps influenced by German `furchtbar'
(terrible) - `foobar' may actually have been the original form.
...

[LosT]

Where to start..

I know it is a stupid question, but: why do people use always "foobar" as an example when they need a word??
About the programming lenguage: I'm starting to program, and I'm using Python, I don't know if it's only based on misinformation about other lenguages or what, but I find it easier to get into, besides it's recommended for Unix/Linux apps, right?... and I'm learning Linux as well so I tought it would be a good starting point...
As many of you have said, it depends on what you want to do with the lenguage...

A good language to start with is C, it will give you a better foundation than many other languages...for example if you start with java you don't *really* understand what an object is- OOP can be learned, but if you learn 'step at a time' I'd say start with C. This is of course subjective.

WHILE you learn a base language, take the time to pick up skills with a good editor. Pick one. Learn it. Learn it well. Learn to deal with your shell...(try AWK, SED, etc...) Learn to GREP like a master. These will be lifeblood skills that you will draw on for the rest of forever (unless you start doing VB stuff, but that really isn't programming now, is it? ;) )

EVENTUALLY, I think that EVERY good programmer has to at least be exposed to Assembler. It will change the way you code.

And Perl is black magic, of the devil: it gives you power, but it can be EVIL . ;)

LosT

[highwizard]

I know it is a stupid question, but: why do people use always "foobar" as an example when they need a word??
About the programming lenguage: I'm starting to program, and I'm using Python, I don't know if it's only based on misinformation about other lenguages or what, but I find it easier to get into, besides it's recommended for Unix/Linux apps, right?... and I'm learning Linux as well so I tought it would be a good starting point...
As many of you have said, it depends on what you want to do with the lenguage...

It's almost as Stupid as posting in a thread that has been Dead since Feb. So you fall right into line with that one ;)

[k3ym4st3r]

It's almost as Stupid as posting in a thread that has been Dead since Feb. So you fall right into line with that one ;)

Yeah, haha, I've just noticed, I wrote the thread yesterday at 3:00 am or something I wasn't completely awake... ;)
Anyway, thank you for the info...

[Anthrax]

Sorry if i sounds stupid but i just got into the programming world,i randomly picked VB but my friend who knows "something" about prgramming said i shpuld start with delphi,but i have read all your post an non of you talk about delphi.What would you advice me to start with?
(note: it's not for a job or something it's more like a hobbie to create simple appz like trojans,chat clients,etc)

[highwizard]

Sorry if i sounds stupid but i just got into the programming world,i randomly picked VB but my friend who knows "something" about prgramming said i shpuld start with delphi,but i have read all your post an non of you talk about delphi.What would you advice me to start with?
(note: it's not for a job or something it's more like a hobbie to create simple appz like trojans,chat clients,etc)

I almost was going to give you a good answer until I read your "note:" line...

(note: it's not for a job or something it's more like a hobbie to create simple appz like trojans,chat clients,etc)

I think you've wandered into the wrong place if you believe people here are going to tell you what to use to create trojan..... NEXT!

[-sS]

I'm a bit outdated on the subject so i got 2 questions

1. What programming language would you recommend to start with.

2. Why do you recommend the language.

As part of my hobby, degree requirement, and different jobs, I've experienced a fair number of languages (Turbo Pascal, Modula-2, C, C++, Java, asm, and a few others).

My language of choice though is Perl. Why? Because I use it practically everyday for my job and for my own purposes at home. My advice to you is choose a language that is best suited for what you want to do. And stick with it.

A word of warning though-- I'll use Perl as an example-- when you ONLY use one language for most of the time, all of a sudden you start to see only "Perl solutions" to any problem. I've caught myself using another language to partly solve a problem only so that I could use Perl to finish solving the rest. :D

-sS

[highwizard]

As part of my hobby, degree requirement, and different jobs, I've experienced a fair number of languages (Turbo Pascal, Modula-2, C, C++, Java, asm, and a few others).

My language of choice though is Perl. Why? Because I use it practically everyday for my job and for my own purposes at home. My advice to you is choose a language that is best suited for what you want to do. And stick with it.

A word of warning though-- I'll use Perl as an example-- when you ONLY use one language for most of the time, all of a sudden you start to see only "Perl solutions" to any problem. I've caught myself using another language to partly solve a problem only so that I could use Perl to finish solving the rest. :D

-sS

I think you just wasted your time. Being as how this thread is old (until someone brought it back from the dead) and the original poster hasn't had any activity on the forums for month ( Last Activity: 02-05-2004 04:32 PM ).

[bascule]

when you ONLY use one language for most of the time, all of a sudden you start to see only "Perl solutions" to any problem. I've caught myself using another language to partly solve a problem only so that I could use Perl to finish solving the rest.

Hence the expression "Fortran programmers can write Fortran in any language"

[simple3]

As Robert de Niro said in Ronin. It's a toolbox, you pick the right tool for the job.

You will be a lot better off if you learn how to program instead of just learning a programming language. There is no one best language, if there was, then there would not be so many. There's gotta be at least a couple dozen in common usage today.

--simple3