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  • phobal
    replied
    Originally posted by ndex
    This thread brings up a really interesting point or two and some questions.

    It is my understanding that an adult taking a person under the age of 18 over state lines without parental consent is committing a federal offense. If the reason for that transportation is contributing to the delinquency of said minor (defcon==booze, sex and hacking) I believe those felony charges are considered aggravated and the transporters would be facing significant fines and the dark federal booty house.

    This is my impression but the facts may differ, perhaps a fed will correct me. I've been approached several times over the years, by people under 18, who wanted me to take them to Vegas and *swore* that it was ok with their parents (yeah, sure....)

    If, for example, there was a car accident and the minor were injured there would have to be someone with the legal authority to seek medical treatment. If a minor happened to slip by the handful of Goons, in the crowd of 5000+ people and end up od'd on intoxicants the repercussions for the hotel and the convention organizers could be significant.

    The Goons, the AP or Defcon et al do not have any responsibility (moral or legal) to "watch over" anyone in particular, regardless of age. They do their best to provide a safe and enjoyable environment but there's always an asshat out there somewhere who thinks they're the exception to the rule. This is not summer camp. Your parents cannot sign you up and send you off, expecting that you'll be "watched over" and (hopefully) they know it.

    It is irresponsible to suggest that Defcon et al, the Goons(tm), the AP or DT would or should take legal/moral/social responsibility for the welfare of minors at the convention. I believe there is something in the official docs about this as well to the effect that a person who is not of legal age should not be at the AP during Defcon without a parent or guardian. This is especially true for after hours parties because there is a significant amount of drinking, sex, uncensored music and technology.

    The best idea I read in this thread was that your family make a vacation of it and drop you off at the AP during the DAY to attend con events. Other than that, save everyone a lot of headaches (especially Priest) and please stay home until you're old enough to attend without a parent or guardian.
    Why can't a 17 year old just transport himself? If a 17 year old is so immature someone of the age of majority has to transport themselves, he doesn't deserve to come. I was planning on coming last year when I was 17, and thanks to my research, I would have been able to come if all of my friends didn't cancel out on me in the last minute.

    Leave a comment:


  • phobal
    replied
    Originally posted by 3lM0
    I will be turning 18 next year and I want to go to defcon this year really bad but my parents wont let me go to Las Vegas because they say "people die there". I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how I can convince them to let me go?
    You're young. Live life. There is nothing more disgraceful than dying a death and not really living life.

    Def Con is an educational event, and being that you [likely, hopefully, etc] have a career in computer science, this is a good start.

    Compromise and say that you'll just go fri, sat, sun and stay at the resort where this is happening and will PROMISE not to wander off *heh heh heh*.

    And the likelyhood if you dying an unprovoked death is so slim, I don't know why it's such an issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • ndex
    replied
    Wouldn't it be nice...

    This thread brings up a really interesting point or two and some questions.

    It is my understanding that an adult taking a person under the age of 18 over state lines without parental consent is committing a federal offense. If the reason for that transportation is contributing to the delinquency of said minor (defcon==booze, sex and hacking) I believe those felony charges are considered aggravated and the transporters would be facing significant fines and the dark federal booty house.

    This is my impression but the facts may differ, perhaps a fed will correct me. I've been approached several times over the years, by people under 18, who wanted me to take them to Vegas and *swore* that it was ok with their parents (yeah, sure....)

    If, for example, there was a car accident and the minor were injured there would have to be someone with the legal authority to seek medical treatment. If a minor happened to slip by the handful of Goons, in the crowd of 5000+ people and end up od'd on intoxicants the repercussions for the hotel and the convention organizers could be significant.

    The Goons, the AP or Defcon et al do not have any responsibility (moral or legal) to "watch over" anyone in particular, regardless of age. They do their best to provide a safe and enjoyable environment but there's always an asshat out there somewhere who thinks they're the exception to the rule. This is not summer camp. Your parents cannot sign you up and send you off, expecting that you'll be "watched over" and (hopefully) they know it.

    It is irresponsible to suggest that Defcon et al, the Goons(tm), the AP or DT would or should take legal/moral/social responsibility for the welfare of minors at the convention. I believe there is something in the official docs about this as well to the effect that a person who is not of legal age should not be at the AP during Defcon without a parent or guardian. This is especially true for after hours parties because there is a significant amount of drinking, sex, uncensored music and technology.

    The best idea I read in this thread was that your family make a vacation of it and drop you off at the AP during the DAY to attend con events. Other than that, save everyone a lot of headaches (especially Priest) and please stay home until you're old enough to attend without a parent or guardian.

    Leave a comment:


  • highwizard
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Spongetron
    Yeah I knwo what you mean...I turn 19 this Saturday and my mom still won;t let me go to Mayland for an anime con...don;t worry though..i cant go to Defcon in Las Vegas either...I'm going to the Army soon. But good luck on the parent thing, it can be hard!
    Otakon?

    Leave a comment:


  • astcell
    replied
    GO ARMY! Hehe you can tell my background. Just tell your Mom anime is cartoons, surely she will think you are "too old" for cartoons!

    Leave a comment:


  • Spongetron
    replied
    Yeah I knwo what you mean...I turn 19 this Saturday and my mom still won;t let me go to Mayland for an anime con...don;t worry though..i cant go to Defcon in Las Vegas either...I'm going to the Army soon. But good luck on the parent thing, it can be hard!

    Leave a comment:


  • astcell
    replied
    Travel a tad south to Tijuana, you will probably find a place for $100/mo.

    Leave a comment:


  • teklord
    replied
    San Diego

    San Diego people are multiplying. It's getting harder and harder to find a damned apartment or place to live these days.

    - teklord


    Originally posted by 3lM0
    Grifter and I are the only ones that under stand the multiplying thing since we live there. thanks for the ideas ill try the one about the local people being with me.

    Leave a comment:


  • wetw3rx
    replied
    this is all moot anyway. hey grifter, aren't all the goons responsible for chaperoning, handholding, entertaining, and generally protecting and guarding the individual welfare and saftey of all attendees under the age of 30? instead of big brother/sister, we can call it the big goon program. :D

    Leave a comment:


  • highwizard
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by bascule
    You can disregard this if your parents aren't
    I'm surprised the church doesn't claim Joseph Smith was bestowed upon with divine power from the Lord to bear that heavy burden at the... top of speed... while injured...

    Dude.. Stop.. Go be anti-religion somewhere else...

    This thread isn't about religion, so stop trying to put the Mormons down...

    Shit... In my mind you're as bad to the mormons as Bush is to the Gays. Welcome to the club of being put into the same category as Bush.... Be Proud!

    Leave a comment:


  • bascule
    replied
    Originally posted by 3lM0
    I almost have him convinced to just take the whole family to Las Vegas for the weekend and to leave me at the convention. I hope that I am able to go.
    You can disregard this if your parents aren't mormon, and my apologies if they are (take that as you will), but you should inform your parents about this:

    Originally posted by Joseph Smith
    These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long, and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters, and bound together in a volume as the leaves of a book, with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed


    6 in * 8 in * 6 in = 288 in^3

    Density of gold: 0.697 lb/in^3

    288 in^3 * 0.697 lb/in^3 = 200 lb

    Would the plates weigh less than a solid block of gold? Probably, perhaps in the 100-150 lb range. Imagine how much they would weigh and how this would affect Joseph Smith returning home with them given this account of the event according to this mother:

    Originally posted by Lucy Smith
    The plates were secreted about three miles from home... Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home.

    After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. lie was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running.
    So, you be the judge as to whether or not Joseph Smith could run at the "top of speed" after taking a blow from a gun, all the time while carrying 100-150 pound golden plates.

    But despite every account from Joseph Smith of the plates claiming they're "solid gold", the Church of LDS now insists that they're made of a special alloy called tumbaga, which is only partly gold but mostly copper. Uh huh... is this what George Bush would refer to as "revisionist history"?

    I'm surprised the church doesn't claim Joseph Smith was bestowed upon with divine power from the Lord to bear that heavy burden at the... top of speed... while injured...

    Leave a comment:


  • 3lM0
    replied
    I almost have him convinced to just take the whole family to Las Vegas for the weekend and to leave me at the convention. I hope that I am able to go.

    Leave a comment:


  • astcell
    replied
    That's why they are parents and not grandparents!

    Leave a comment:


  • jesse
    replied
    in the words of that urban poet, the Fresh Prince... "Parents just don't understand"

    Leave a comment:


  • murakami
    replied
    Originally posted by astcell
    Feds wear jackets even in 110 degree Las Vegas?

    Okay if it is LDS, then what is a Mormon?
    Not in Vegas. In Vegas they wear hawaiian shirts. Nasty cheap ones from Walmart.

    I dunno what a Mormon is, but they kept telling me that they were LDS when I worked in western Wyoming.

    Leave a comment:

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