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  • #31
    Though you have an interesting idea there are some problems:
    1) Personnel: People will be required to verify your "papers" at entrances
    a.) This will force an evacuation of the room and
    b.) This will create delays for entry into talks
    c.) This will cut into the time the speaker has to offer a presentation/answer Q's
    d.) More personnel may increase ticket prices
    2) No matter what system you come up with for people to enter, people will abuse it
    a.) This is a security conference with people who have skills with forgery
    b.) Attempts to create forgeries will further increase delays by people checking creds at the entrances
    c.) The work to create something that is forgery-resistant may increase cost of admission
    3) This does not solve the problem of "popular presentations" everyone will want to choose as "one of their three choices."

    I am not against new ideas for solving the problem at hand. Some interesting suggestions have included:
    1) Ensure popular presentations run against each other to "load balance" the crowds
    2) Create a 4th track to accommodate the extra people
    3) Move to a place where we have more buildings which are larger
    4) Offer better video broadcast with better zoom, multiple cameras and angles as well as a system for questions to be relayed from hotel rooms to the speaker by a proxy. (All which would likely increase cost through addition of new services)
    5) Provide a feedback forum with unpublished results where people can "vote" on what topics they want to see, and the permit the most popular presentations to occupy the largest rooms.
    (more have been suggested)

    You have courage to step forward and offer ideas for solutions. :-)
    Last edited by TheCotMan; June 23, 2004, 21:16. Reason: spelling fix

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    • #32
      Why don't we station HW and his friends at the talk entrance? Those who REALLY want to get in can service him accordingly! :D

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      • #33
        Originally posted by pezz
        I take it females will not be subject to this requirement?
        Maybe OP will be at the door with me, so you may have to help her out.

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        • #34
          The Darkest Lurker

          Originally posted by TheCotMan
          I am not against new ideas for solving the problem at hand. Some interesting suggestions have included:
          1) Ensure popular presentations run against each other to "load balance" the crowds
          [This is being done, and we are consulting our time-viewing lens to see into the future and make proper selections]


          Originally posted by TheCotMan
          2) Create a 4th track to accommodate the extra people
          [If only this were possible. There is not enough space without another tent, and there is no room for a tent except for on the roof. Roof has bad mojo with the LVFD]


          Originally posted by TheCotMan
          3) Move to a place where we have more buildings which are larger
          [Yes, we are always interested in finding a space that meets our requirements. Finding a place that is DEF CON friendly and non-gambling is tough. We could go back to the casino days, but really, who will let us take over their network, phone, and video systems?]


          Originally posted by TheCotMan
          4) Offer better video broadcast with better zoom, multiple cameras and angles as well as a system for questions to be relayed from hotel rooms to the speaker by a proxy. (All which would likely increase cost through addition of new services)
          [I see you understand the problem. This year we are adding an extra camera to cover the contests area, and to make sure we get coverage of the games. Much more than that and it gets a bit expensive]


          Originally posted by TheCotMan
          5) Provide a feedback forum with unpublished results where people can "vote" on what topics they want to see, and the permit the most popular presentations to occupy the largest rooms.
          [Not feasable for this year, but something we have thought about. Dynamic speaker allocation makes sense only if you are sure the people who are voting are also going to attend a talk, not just vote and go to the pool]


          Originally posted by TheCotMan
          (more have been suggested)
          [And I thank the more levle headed of you for discussing these issues. We have re-arranged the hotel to maximize speaking space should the Fire Marshall make an appearance, which may confuse some people as to where everything is located, but that iswhat the printed program is for. See you there!]

          You have courage to step forward and offer ideas for solutions. :-)

          Well, my replied got all jacked up in the [ ] brackets, but you get the idea. With that said, it is off to watch GITS 2nd Gig.
          PGP key: dtangent@defcon.org valid 2020 Jan 15, to 2024 Jan 01 Fingerprint: BC5B CD9A C609 1B6B CD81 9636 D7C6 E96C FE66 156A

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dark Tangent
            Well, my replied got all jacked up in the [ ] brackets, but you get the idea. With that said, it is off to watch GITS 2nd Gig.
            I have edited the post for clarity. All is well.
            .: Grifter :.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Grifter
              I have edited the post for clarity. All is well.
              What a swell guy. :D
              & he makes great hamburgers too.
              .:. Adrenaline .:.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Adrenaline
                What a swell guy. :D
                & he makes great hamburgers too.
                But can he dance the bat-usi?
                a pc-0x90 by any other name is a nummish..
                Bigger 1:23

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by pc-0x90
                  But can he dance the bat-usi?
                  I think his inner "dancing queen" needs to be unleashed.

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                  • #39
                    How about moving some of the items outside by the pool, on the roof, into the lobby, into that room by the snack venders, into the hallways etc? If "Capture the Flag" and the venders moved out of the two rooms they were in you could have one more big-ass room to replace one of the smaller track rooms.

                    It seemed to me that last year the big room rarely filled up all the way, but the smaller room always did. IMHO just using the biggest rooms possible for the tracks, and making the flag folk and venders squeeze in where they could would solve most of the problem.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by y6y6y6
                      How about moving some of the items outside by the pool
                      Outside by the pool? There are some definite issue you will be facing there:

                      1) The Head outside 2) This is usually the area that people go and relax and hangout with friends ect... You really don't want to take these area's away, you need to remember that if you don't have overflow/relax area's you are in some definite trouble. Also, who wants to get their stuff wet by being near a pool?

                      on the roof
                      As it has been stated, the LVFP has issues with a roof tent.. 'nuff said.


                      into the lobby
                      This area should not be bogged down like that. It's where people come and go from the hotel. It's also a good relax/meet/overflow area.


                      into the hallways etc
                      You can't have things in the hallway. Hallways are a manner of egress, you cannot block a manner of egress. It's a very fast way to get cited/shutdown by the Fire Department.


                      It seemed to me that last year the big room rarely filled up all the way, but the smaller room always did. IMHO just using the biggest rooms possible for the tracks, and making the flag folk and venders squeeze in where they could would solve most of the problem.
                      Squeeze in where they could is not a good way to run things, especially since squeezing where you might think would be ok, might be a code violation or a hazard. It could also just be an overall design problem. With 5000+ people you can't have every piece of space taken up, not to mention anything outside will have to be broken down everynight and re-setup again every morning.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by highwizard
                        This is usually the area that people go and relax and hangout with friends ect...
                        Hmmmm..... I would lobby you that people were hanging out anyplace there was room to sit or stand, and that many of them would rather have been in one of the track rooms. To give people places to hangout at the expense of having more room for discussions seems wildly misguided to me.

                        I'm not trying to be difficult. it just seems to me that people are going to be jam packed no matter what you do. And the only places that weren't jam packed last year were the Capture the Flag and vender areas. That space could be better used by the tracks. Again, just my humble opinion.

                        Originally posted by highwizard
                        As it has been stated, the LVFP has issues with a roof tent.. 'nuff said.
                        Who said anything about a tent? Just open up the roof for venders and hangout. Everyone spend a large percentage of their time standing outside in lines last year. Put some tables and umbrellas on the roof. Sell concessions up there rather than in the halls. I have no idea whether that will fly with LVFP, but since the stairs up there are a major part of the architecture, I suspect it would be fine.

                        Originally posted by highwizard
                        You can't have things in the hallway.
                        You can have a bar. If you can have a bar you can have venders. I see your point, and you're right. I just think priorities should be different. We don't have enough room for lectures, but we have plenty of room for bars and venders?

                        Originally posted by highwizard
                        With 5000+ people you can't have every piece of space taken up
                        Every bit of space is, was, and will be taken up. I'm just saying things could be shuffled to give the track rooms the highest priority to the big spaces.

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                        • #42
                          Who said anything about a tent? Just open up the roof for venders and hangout. Everyone spend a large percentage of their time standing outside in lines last year. Put some tables and umbrellas on the roof. Sell concessions up there rather than in the halls. I have no idea whether that will fly with LVFP, but since the stairs up there are a major part of the architecture, I suspect it would be fine.
                          I'd have to pull the actual codes for LV, but I have a feeling things "wouldn't be fine". Even if it is a major part of the artchitecture it doesn't mean they code regulation allow it.

                          You can have a bar. If you can have a bar you can have venders. I see your point, and you're right. I just think priorities should be different. We don't have enough room for lectures, but we have plenty of room for bars and venders?
                          Actually, you're not even supposed to have a bar in hallways, but often code enforcers will look the other way on this one. Unless the bar is specifically designed to be in that area (ie: not a moving bar on wheels, not a table setup like a bar).

                          Every bit of space is, was, and will be taken up. I'm just saying things could be shuffled to give the track rooms the highest priority to the big spaces.
                          I agree. And from what I understand they already have a different layout from last year ;) .

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by highwizard
                            I'd have to pull the actual codes for LV, but I have a feeling things "wouldn't be fine". Even if it is a major part of the artchitecture it doesn't mean they code regulation allow it.
                            Not to mention it will be JULY/AUGUST which is BLAST FURNACE HOT and the first year of the tent the AC never worked right so you just sat and melted.

                            Take the tent away from the roof sounds like a GREAT idea! Why bother having any shade at all??
                            We own everything so you don't have to!

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                            • #44
                              Exactly how many CCTV channels will we have this year? And, correct me if I'm wrong, all channels will be broadcasting _something_ full-time, yes?

                              Thank you,
                              -Demos
                              -= Guns don't kill people; Postal workers do =-

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Demosthenes19
                                Exactly how many CCTV channels will we have this year? And, correct me if I'm wrong, all channels will be broadcasting _something_ full-time, yes?
                                I believe they plan to broadcast each presentation as it shows (i.e., at least three channels). If I recall correctly, they were pretty good about this last year.

                                I sort-of remember a rumor about the Alexis Park upgrading their wiring so that they can carry more channels with better picture quality, but I can't say for sure.

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