Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fate of a speaker

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • skroo
    replied
    Originally posted by daed
    Umm I think we need a new thread... So at least we know the difference between whats in my head and "on the other hand"
    I'm gonna hazard a guess that the head is full of something brown, steamy, and rich in carrots & peanuts.

    Leave a comment:


  • daed
    replied
    Originally posted by not5150
    Hmm.... depending on what statistics you use, we had a 100-200 to 1 kill ratio. Pretty good for running away with our "tails between our legs" (in your words).
    Ok. Ok. Wrong words, I stick by our military, but hey that was "on the other hand". Those guys did stick it out and they did what they were told. I hope they feel as good about wasting all those people as you do, ours and theirs, with the mission still standing incomplete. I'm pretty hardcore anyhow, the UN can bite me. If I had control of that I would have rolled armor on it for a month or turned the place into glass after that first assault. See we both have the same sickness in a wierd way. I'm going to go watch the "Wall" now, and try to figure out what went wrong, heh.
    Umm I think we need a new thread... So at least we know the difference between whats in my head and "on the other hand"

    Leave a comment:


  • not5150
    replied
    Originally posted by daed
    What makes me sicker is wasting 18 good men on a guy who should have caught a .50 cal in the brainpan on a hot dark night. He was not even there, hows that for anarchy! On the other view, if they were "anarchist", remember, our boys left with thier tails between their legs, rolling out with U.N. armor, after WAY to long. BAD, BAD plan.
    Hmm.... depending on what statistics you use, we had a 100-200 to 1 kill ratio. Pretty good for running away with our "tails between our legs" (in your words).
    Last edited by not5150; August 6, 2004, 23:26.

    Leave a comment:


  • daed
    replied
    Not Really Dude

    Originally posted by Shatter
    For the thick...

    Freedom of speech is expressing your views, not yelling FIRE in a crowded movie theater.

    Freedom of speech is pblically saying that "Bush is an idiot" not "$5000 to the first guy to put a bullet through his head".

    Freedom of speech is our ability to have this forum in it's entirety without risk or threat of incarceration or death. Tyrrany is my having to go into hide, change my name or flee the country for making this post.


    We have politics constantly at Defcon. The entire scene is in itself, quite political. We constantly discuss the morality, the ethics, the legalities of what we do, and what we're interested in, be in Penetration testing to Ethical *cringe* hacking. This is a far cry from standing on a stage calling for violence, killing and being a basic asshat.

    Anarchism is all fine and well for 15yo males in full swing of puberty hormones. Then you mature and realize how utterly stupid the whole idea is. The simple truth is, Anarchy can't exist without something for it to oppose. A true anarchist society is a "might makes right" system, which immediatly will collapse into tyranny in about 5 seconds. Just take a look at Somallia. There's Anarchy for you.

    Ok. I'm done ranting.

    --S
    I'm 30. I believe that mentioning Somalia here and equating it with anarchy shows your lack of understanding. That shithole is a military junta, the youth are brainwashed by the local madrasa. That is all there is for the poor to get anything approaching a "education".
    What makes me sicker is wasting 18 good men on a guy who should have caught a .50 cal in the brainpan on a hot dark night. He was not even there, hows that for anarchy! On the other view, if they were "anarchist", remember, our boys left with thier tails between their legs, rolling out with U.N. armor, after WAY to long. BAD, BAD plan.
    I believe you are right about "Might makes Right" government, LOOK around, what do you see? Is this "process for growth" good? Go ahead, keep building your families on diesel fed beef and nuclear power. (I'm not a vegetarian so don't even go there.) If we are attracting "Puberty and Hormones" that should worry you then, recall what we put on the beach in Normandy.
    And finally for "utterly stupid", yes I believe, oh, about 85% of the human population. No, No, they would not survive a pure anarchist society. FOR SURE.


    I am not ranting, hit the books, realize who your friends are. I am an anarchist and I love you all, probally way too much for my own good.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackOrchid
    replied
    ""People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)


    You have to love Kierkegaard!.. I'm reading "For Self Examination" now.. but I really love your quote!

    Leave a comment:


  • Shatter
    replied
    For the thick...

    Freedom of speech is expressing your views, not yelling FIRE in a crowded movie theater.

    Freedom of speech is pblically saying that "Bush is an idiot" not "$5000 to the first guy to put a bullet through his head".

    Freedom of speech is our ability to have this forum in it's entirety without risk or threat of incarceration or death. Tyrrany is my having to go into hide, change my name or flee the country for making this post.


    We have politics constantly at Defcon. The entire scene is in itself, quite political. We constantly discuss the morality, the ethics, the legalities of what we do, and what we're interested in, be in Penetration testing to Ethical *cringe* hacking. This is a far cry from standing on a stage calling for violence, killing and being a basic asshat.

    Anarchism is all fine and well for 15yo males in full swing of puberty hormones. Then you mature and realize how utterly stupid the whole idea is. The simple truth is, Anarchy can't exist without something for it to oppose. A true anarchist society is a "might makes right" system, which immediatly will collapse into tyranny in about 5 seconds. Just take a look at Somallia. There's Anarchy for you.

    Ok. I'm done ranting.

    --S

    Leave a comment:


  • Deviant Ollam
    replied
    can anyone confirm/deny a rumor about the video feed going black during this speaker's time slot? i was watching in my room at the moment and didn't get to see the end of the lecture but i assumed it was my room TV flaking out again. when i spoke to some other people, the same thing was reported.

    p.s. - thanks go to priest, who was willing to dispell some rumors and explain to me what had happened when i asked him about it poolside, eventhough he had no obligation to take the time to do so and likely had enough on his plate at the time. this is an example of one factor which makes me love the community and the scene so much... if something fucks up or goes awry, it's just sort of acknowledged that the public gets a lucid and clear explanation.

    (i guess that stems from our industry, tho... if marketing produces product catalogues that have page 33 upside down, the spokesdroids won't offer much explanation... but imagine a mail server being offline for three hours and a sysadmin not issuing a full report as to why it happened and what steps were taken to fix it.)

    Leave a comment:


  • humperdink
    replied
    Priest has stomped on my talks at defcon too, but shit happens, and he doesnt mean it to be a dick... the man just loves to talk...

    plus what are you talking about? your talk was the shit and we all know it...

    -hdink



    Originally posted by Effugas
    Heh guys, this is Dan Kaminsky...thought I'd take a second to shed some light on what went on from my perspective.

    So, as a speaker, you end up going into the ready room about forty five minutes before your talk. If something was going to go down during that time in the general con -- there's no way I'd know. And I didn't -- all I knew was that Priest had a message to deliver, and since he's basically the head goon and one of the oldest school supporters of Defcon, he gets alot of deference.

    Once it turned into a conversation with the audience, I started getting really, really uncomfortable. Not because I didn't agree with Priest's right to talk, or that I wouldn't otherwise enjoy a thoughtful dialog on the false dichotomy of diplomacy vs. war, but -- why here? Why now?

    I had no idea some nineteen year old kid out to impress his girlfriend had just seemingly threatened the lives of thousands of feds at a conference filled with thousands of feds. I had no clue that Priest, and the entire rest of the Defcon press squad, was in the midst of a hectic but ultimately stunningly successful session of damage control. And I don't think the AV guys knew either -- thus the mike getting cut off a couple times. Certainly, Priest is the man to give the benefit of the doubt -- but at the point where he had ranted for five minutes, and was asking for another five, I...wasn't happy.

    A couple people have given Defcon a bit of heat for "censoring" this guy. Look. The DC staff probably saved this kid from having a serious criminal record for the rest of his life, and managing his safety despite temporary stupidity -- even at the expense of a bit of my talk -- is sort of the whole point of the Goons. Their diligence is why we still have a con to party, learn, and hack at after twelve years of running something "underground" enough for Spot The Fed to be an official event.

    Anyway, this has gone on longer than planned. Just remember that if you see weird things like this happening -- you're at Defcon, it's weird that anything's happening at all :-)

    --Dan

    Leave a comment:


  • daed
    replied
    Nicely Put

    Originally posted by priest
    Right. This seems to have gotten a bit out of hand what with all the rumors and the like flying about so….

    For those of you who hate me and hate what I have to say please feel free to either go outside and play hide and go fuck yourself or go back to your rooms and bitch about what a big meanie I am and how I hurt your precious feelings on your live journals.

    The rest of you who would like to know exactly what happened with Crime-whats-his-ass and his Yoko Ono girlfriend please read on.

    As to the young gentleman, every year or so we get a punter like him who tells us he is going to speak on one thing and then does the old bait-and-switch. We try to catch it and put a stop to it before it gets too far out of hand but sometimes it slips though. This was one of those times. We shut him down at the end and due to the very negative mood of the crowd, including several people who did rush the stage and attempt to attack the young man we decided that it would be best to escort him, for his own protection, to a safe area while we made sure the crowd calmed down. After this he was brought back to the Apollo area where several journalists and attendees were waiting to ask him questions. After the Q&A he declined further protection and was last seen as of Saturday night crouching by a set of stairs near pool two looking a bit like Golum and randomly lashing out at people who looked at him ‘funny’. He was not asked to leave the con nor was he, to our knowledge assaulted by con members or arrested. He will not be invited to speak at Defcon again. His speach is on the CD and I am not sure if he will be on the video's.


    Now let me reiterate what I said in my rants in several talks. Defcon, the staff of Defcon, and I would like to think the majority of the Defcon community, do not subscribe to what was said in the talk. For myself, I am a strict constitutionalist and am a strong supporter of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments and quite frankly if called upon,as I believe all on the Defcon staff and most all within the Defcon community, will fight to the death defending your rights and freedoms and would be some of the first to take up arms against a Tyranny.

    However, we DO NOT live in a Tyranny. Don’t think so? Please feel free to travel to Iran, North Korea, or China and in a very loud voice in a very public forum start spouting off about how they oppress their people and what criminals the government are and see how fast you end up staring down the barrel of a gun followed by a kangaroo court trail followed by either a long ‘re-education camp’ sentence if you are lucky or a bullet to the back of the head with the cost of the bullet being charged to your family if you are not so lucky. Hell, I am a big believer in Darwin in action so to thin the gene pool I will pay for your ticket to fly there if you think I am full of it.

    Yes I have heard the argument that this country was founded by “Terrorists” and that the difference between a “terrorist” and a “freedom fighter” depends on how you look at the fight they are fighting. This is horseshit of the highest caliber. Freedom fighters do not target and kill civilians. Those who do are nothing more than murderers and common thugs and no better than a sociopath criminal gang-banger shooting without care into a crowd and killing a 8 year old child instead of the fellow gangster being targeted. I have also heard the crapass argument that he was just engaging in "free speach". The constitution guarantee’s our right to free and responsible speech it does not allow us to engage in speech that leads to the loss of life, limb, and the destruction of property.

    That being said we have a system in place in this country to enact the changes to government that these folk advocate without the use of violence or destruction of property. It is called the vote and when only 10% of your age group goes out to vote frankly the other 90% of you better just shut-the-fuck-up-and-sit-the-fuck-down. No vote no voice.

    The vote combined with the use of non-violent civil protest is how we change things here and this is what Defcon supports. Destruction of property, the taking of life, the creation of injury and hardship, and the destruction of Data in the name of political change or for any reason for that matter is not some noble and honorable act, it is the act of a common thug.

    Priest
    I agree totally, hopefully he will heed my warnings. I think his anarchist views are out of line with the majority of anarchist that I know. We endeavour to destroy our enemies, but we strive to be loved by the proletariat. We like everything to be highly erudite, well spoken, and concise. I am kicking myself for not becoming more involved with the presentation. I think that nuking the RNC alone is wrong. If your going to nuke one hell why not nuke em all! (equal opportunity) I want to have a more positive time next year. This bullshit gave me stress, The only good thing was taking a grand from Mandalay Bay! And that other little op. Hey Priest, Instead of close kill shots how about this, I will challenge you to a wrestling match at DEFCON 13. You out-wiegh me by quite a bit, are you game? It will be funny shit. P.S. I sense you were in the service, you feel strange somehow, you've killed. I may be wrong so please except my apology in advance. I'm wierd. Hmmm

    Leave a comment:


  • priest
    replied
    Dan-

    Thank you for your words. I apologize for not leting you in on why I was going political and I apologize to the audience for going political. I don't really believe it is my place or the place of Defcon to go on a political rant but we had to distance ourselves from what this kid was saying else all of the headlines would have read "Defcon advocates pipe bombs and political assasination" or some other such wankery.

    Priest

    Leave a comment:


  • replicant
    replied
    Originally posted by noid
    Not sure where you folks are getting this from. His asshatery will be archived for all to see unless the speaker himself asks us not to.
    good, i was worried it wouldn't as i missed this, only caught the last half of Priest's interjection from my hotel room ..

    i have a sick enjoyment of watching people dig themselves into a hole ..
    Last edited by replicant; August 4, 2004, 10:50.

    Leave a comment:


  • priest
    replied
    The rest of the story

    Right. This seems to have gotten a bit out of hand what with all the rumors and the like flying about so….

    For those of you who hate me and hate what I have to say please feel free to either go outside and play hide and go fuck yourself or go back to your rooms and bitch about what a big meanie I am and how I hurt your precious feelings on your live journals.

    The rest of you who would like to know exactly what happened with Crime-whats-his-ass and his Yoko Ono girlfriend please read on.

    As to the young gentleman, every year or so we get a punter like him who tells us he is going to speak on one thing and then does the old bait-and-switch. We try to catch it and put a stop to it before it gets too far out of hand but sometimes it slips though. This was one of those times. We shut him down at the end and due to the very negative mood of the crowd, including several people who did rush the stage and attempt to attack the young man we decided that it would be best to escort him, for his own protection, to a safe area while we made sure the crowd calmed down. After this he was brought back to the Apollo area where several journalists and attendees were waiting to ask him questions. After the Q&A he declined further protection and was last seen as of Saturday night crouching by a set of stairs near pool two looking a bit like Golum and randomly lashing out at people who looked at him ‘funny’. He was not asked to leave the con nor was he, to our knowledge assaulted by con members or arrested. He will not be invited to speak at Defcon again. His speach is on the CD and I am not sure if he will be on the video's.


    Now let me reiterate what I said in my rants in several talks. Defcon, the staff of Defcon, and I would like to think the majority of the Defcon community, do not subscribe to what was said in the talk. For myself, I am a strict constitutionalist and am a strong supporter of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments and quite frankly if called upon,as I believe all on the Defcon staff and most all within the Defcon community, will fight to the death defending your rights and freedoms and would be some of the first to take up arms against a Tyranny.

    However, we DO NOT live in a Tyranny. Don’t think so? Please feel free to travel to Iran, North Korea, or China and in a very loud voice in a very public forum start spouting off about how they oppress their people and what criminals the government are and see how fast you end up staring down the barrel of a gun followed by a kangaroo court trail followed by either a long ‘re-education camp’ sentence if you are lucky or a bullet to the back of the head with the cost of the bullet being charged to your family if you are not so lucky. Hell, I am a big believer in Darwin in action so to thin the gene pool I will pay for your ticket to fly there if you think I am full of it.

    Yes I have heard the argument that this country was founded by “Terrorists” and that the difference between a “terrorist” and a “freedom fighter” depends on how you look at the fight they are fighting. This is horseshit of the highest caliber. Freedom fighters do not target and kill civilians. Those who do are nothing more than murderers and common thugs and no better than a sociopath criminal gang-banger shooting without care into a crowd and killing a 8 year old child instead of the fellow gangster being targeted. I have also heard the crapass argument that he was just engaging in "free speach". The constitution guarantee’s our right to free and responsible speech it does not allow us to engage in speech that leads to the loss of life, limb, and the destruction of property.

    That being said we have a system in place in this country to enact the changes to government that these folk advocate without the use of violence or destruction of property. It is called the vote and when only 10% of your age group goes out to vote frankly the other 90% of you better just shut-the-fuck-up-and-sit-the-fuck-down. No vote no voice.

    The vote combined with the use of non-violent civil protest is how we change things here and this is what Defcon supports. Destruction of property, the taking of life, the creation of injury and hardship, and the destruction of Data in the name of political change or for any reason for that matter is not some noble and honorable act, it is the act of a common thug.

    Priest

    Leave a comment:


  • drdank
    replied
    Originally posted by icer
    I actually laughed out loud at his idea of taping black paper together and send it as a fax to the RNC.
    Did he also mention opening the engine compartment on the back on the delegate's charter buses and turning the kill switch?

    Leave a comment:


  • icer
    replied
    Originally posted by y6y6y6
    Having attended the talk in question, I can assure you it's not worth watching, other than for it's train wreck factor. The speaker literally had nothing useful to say. In a talk about using the Internet to leverage civil disobedience he failed to mention his website or how he was using it. All of the techniques he did mention were basic stalking and harassing.

    In a time where EFF and Dean are using the Internet as a powerful organizing tool, the kid's idea of flooding email boxes and defacing websites were particularly quaint and naive.

    It's telling that he started the talk saying he expected to get arrested, but then he couldn't even manage that. If you're an anarchist and the FBI couldn't care less, it might be time to find a day job.
    I actually laughed out loud at his idea of taping black paper together and send it as a fax to the RNC.

    Leave a comment:


  • daed
    replied
    Hey, I had no idea Crimethinc was going to say that. I did not read his speech. I think the political rant was nasty. Don't worry, I am watching intensely. I think the threats were baseless. The level is low. hardware so-so. The FBI needs to think about real work and this is not it. By the way that DEFCON security guy was a nob to me when I escorted crimethinc to the communications area. He started telling me he was a sniper and it sounded stupid. Priest got things wound down and he gained my admiration when he said he could just kill me. I love people who have some BALLS. Overall DEFCON was fun and amusing. I scared Crimthinc a little that night anyhow, he must have seen god or the devil. I am positive that I adjusted his candor. Hmmm my name is not in the Defcon logs. Wierd huh! Ha Ha. I love being an operator. daedeluslanthanien end message.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X