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My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

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  • Grendel
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    I mentioned this in another post, but one of the things that I would like to have seen is areas designated for specific topics, like OSes, or network, or tools, or whatever commonality this group has. Even if these areas were simply pre-designated tables in a common room, I'm sure there would be additional reasons for people to congregate in this area, and therefore more ad-hoc discussions and encounters.

    This was my first time at defcon, and while I enjoyed it immensely, I only ended up meeting "single-serving friends" and would have probably had an even more enjoyable time had I known where to meet people with similar interests. I also agree that this should occur in or very near a well-trafficed area.

    Leave a comment:


  • spahkle
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by BlackOrchid
    How can we shape the areas we have to better centralize and socialize real people? There needs to be some area that the majority pass through on their way to a conference area.
    This was my conclusion as well. Considering the turnout this year, it is forseeable that Defcon could leverage the Fire Marshall debacle friday along with the attendance load to show that the convention needs committed, dedicated space.

    If the space used by the Dart convention was given to Defcon next year, what inventive design could be used to create better socializing experience? The Riviera has great convention opportunities, but is sorely lacking on opportunities to socialize.

    The AP was good for socialization due to centralized areas that all traffic flowed through. At the Riviera there were sterile hallways connecting all the of the different rooms. At no time did you *have to* walk through specific areas (CTF, Chillout rooms/Dunktank area). An attendee could pick up their badge, visit the three speaker rooms and *never see the rest of the con events*. That idea is completely alien to everyone who has attended cons at the AP.

    There were two primary outside accesses to the Convention:
    1) external doors outside of Reg
    2) external doors leading to hallway that lead to convention space.

    If we had the rest of that convention space, the registration area could be setup at the external doors outside of all the convention space. The space in between reg and the speaker rooms (including hallway) could be lined with activity information, scheduling, etc. The idea of reserving the roof pool sounds great but due to its distance, unless Defcon had the entire tower connected to the pool, people probably wouldn't use it. The 'Chill-Out' room on the Penthouse floor in the Monaco tower was almost always empty. People couldn't find it (24th floor???) and it was quite a distance from the rest of the convention.

    If I had to prioritize what I see as most beneficial to next years success at turning around the social vacuum from this year it would be:

    1) Entire tower reserved for Defcon
    2) More convention floorspace organized to direct traffic flow and encourage ad-hoc discussions
    3) Pool area

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    begin of a thread where the roof pool was found to be less than ideal, even if the leaks were fixed

    There is/was a non-/dev/null-ed thread too, but this /dev/null-ed thread provides sufficient summary, and is closed. ]:>

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby_Normal
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by Voltage Spike
    Why must there be water in it? Safety? What if we devise a way to simply cover it over?
    How about making it into a big ball pit!!! :-D

    Leave a comment:


  • bascule
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    I think an SMS repeater that people could add themselves to before con would be a great idea. It'd need some kind of moderation system (and a moderator) to decide what messages go out though, otherwise it'd surely get flooded by some jerkass spammer

    Leave a comment:


  • jedi
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by Voltage Spike
    Why must there be water in it? Safety? What if we devise a way to simply cover it over?
    Or fill it with something that doesn't leak?

    Originally posted by BlackOrchid
    Not meaning to insult/offend all of these ideas put forth, but so far we're still not coming up with anything nearly as personable as direct contact.

    I'm still meditating on ths personal contact dilemma. But digitalizing is something we could have done at home and thus absolutely no need for defcon.
    Agreed. My tech suggestion was an attempt to solve the problem by centralizing communication. And as has been pointed out previously, the riviera does not have the optimal layout for casual direct contact. Even if we get the roof pool (as has been suggested), I think it'll suffer the same issue the chill out room did: it's not in the path of casual migration.

    No matter how I think about this, the courtyard pool seems the optimal location/solution.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by Voltage Spike
    Why must there be water in it? Safety? What if we devise a way to simply cover it over?
    Because... the only thing more dangerous than a pool filled with water at night without any lifguards is a pool *without* any water or lifeguards at night!

    Seriously, pre-con recon was completed and found the roof pool to not be an ideal location. It turns out that people reported management offices presently overlook the roof pool, and the roof is a location used by employees for smoking breaks.

    I think we have at least one discussion thread about this in the pre-Defcon 14 threads.

    Hope this helps

    Leave a comment:


  • Voltage Spike
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by Abby_Normal
    The roof pool would be great, but at the moment it leaks. Do we bring in enough $ that it would be worth it to the Riv to repair and open it?
    Why must there be water in it? Safety? What if we devise a way to simply cover it over?

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby_Normal
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by BlackOrchid
    I've entertained the idea opening the top pool area to being exclusive to defcon attendees ONLY for day and all night 'raves'. Why can't the hotel give us a little more liberty given our recent history of relative calm and control with the help of our goons. Make the upstairs pool exclusive to coolers, music, and our regular mayhem. (I'm sure there is insider information regarding the inability to do this but I'd like to at least hear a reason against it. Thanks)

    Just throwing out some ideas for real human interaction as opposed to isolation of digitalization.
    The roof pool would be great, but at the moment it leaks. Do we bring in enough $ that it would be worth it to the Riv to repair and open it?

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackOrchid
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Not meaning to insult/offend all of these ideas put forth, but so far we're still not coming up with anything nearly as personable as direct contact.

    I'm still meditating on ths personal contact dilemma. But digitalizing is something we could have done at home and thus absolutely no need for defcon.

    How can we shape the areas we have to better centralize and socialize real people? There needs to be some area that the majority pass through on their way to a conference area that isn't being totally controlled by guard dogs.

    OR

    I've entertained the idea opening the top pool area to being exclusive to defcon attendees ONLY for day and all night 'raves'. Why can't the hotel give us a little more liberty given our recent history of relative calm and control with the help of our goons. Make the upstairs pool exclusive to coolers, music, and our regular mayhem. (I'm sure there is insider information regarding the inability to do this but I'd like to at least hear a reason against it. Thanks)

    Just throwing out some ideas for real human interaction as opposed to isolation of digitalization.

    Leave a comment:


  • jedi
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Low tech is one way to solve this. But I imagine it'll be difficult to manage finding the data you need when there's tons of messages on whatever easel/whiteboard/butcher paper we would choose.

    What about trying a different solution. For example, we could set up a set of stations specifically connected to a closed network (or possibly isolated from the dc network but with outside connectivity)? We could have it occupy one of the sky boxes and setup a series of terminals with the local net for folks to use to leave messages for each other. We could localize communication to say a forum board that's only setup for the con. The we only have one room and a small set of machines to monitor.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by lil_freak
    Um, go out and get a 3M Post-It Easel and Easel Pads. They are a good size (2.5 feet by 2.08 feet) and work well for office meetings, so I think they would work great at Defcon.

    Besides Cot, it would be less of a hassle to do this than move/arrange tables and what not.
    But those solutions cost money. :-) 1 or 2 tables dedicated to this purpose could be setup on Friday morning and torn down on Sunday.

    Setup and break-down of tables is really easy and does not require a trip to the store.

    Also, the Dart people had an Easel in the hallway and that thing was kicked over a few times. (Heavy objects tend to "stay-put" while light-weight object seem to walk-off on their own, or get smashed at Defcon.)

    Leave a comment:


  • lil_freak
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by TheCotMan
    WWMD? or WWWCD?
    (What would MacGeyver Do? or What would Weslesy Crusher Do?)
    Um, go out and get a 3M Post-It Easel and Easel Pads. They are a good size (2.5 feet by 2.08 feet) and work well for office meetings, so I think they would work great at Defcon.

    Besides Cot, it would be less of a hassle to do this than move/arrange tables and what not.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by converge
    Forums might not be the best for this, since not real time and could compromise login credentials for future use.
    Forums support https, allowing the observant to mitigate MiM SSL-based credential gathering attacks.

    Forums could work well with https, but the biggest problem with forums is the lack of computers-- many people not competing in an event requiring a computer, don't bring computers.

    Why not just an IRC channel of some kind? SMS really didn't do so well ..
    SMS did better than other forums, but the very unicast nature of "sessions" between people made multi-party communications increase in complexity by O(n2) time as the number of people included increased.

    As for paper-based BBS, this was possible. Butcher paper, and lay a table on its side, up against the wall. Attach the paper to the face of the table, and *bam* you have a BBS that include paper not attached to the walls. Need something taller? 2 tables side-by-side leaned vertically against the wall with paper attached to their face. Things not allowed to touch the wall at all? then a single table on its side with the legs extended for support can still work.

    WWMD? or WWWCD?
    (What would MacGeyver Do? or What would Weslesy Crusher Do?)

    The other difference in feel was the vast open pool/lobby area .. being crunched down into smaller hallways. Unless you roamed the main hallways at all hours of the day, you were likely to only find a specific groups with similar interests .. ie the same talks you went to, or the contest area, etc..
    An open public space is needed. The pool is central, but afflicted with "norms" and restricted by hours. Perhaps, once we get the whole hotel or large parts of it, we can take over the tennis courts? They don't have that dangerous water that seems to concern people so much that a lifeguard is required. (I can understand the light issue, but lights *can* be trucked in to shine onto the pool.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Deviant Ollam
    replied
    Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

    Originally posted by mfreeck
    How about an analog message board? Not everyone is able/wants to connect to the defcon network... sometimes analog is the best tool for the job. The problem is we're not allowed to have a big poster on the wall, but if there were some kinda sheet that was easy to browse, people could leave a msg.
    what about an old overhead projector or two? leave a bucket of erasable markers next to them and there you go... instant public noteboard.

    Leave a comment:

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