DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

[Digital Ebola]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

The DC-Stuff mailing list licks donkey nuts. Actual donkey nuts. For the last few years its basically been the same 8 people arguing with each other and flaming anyone else who gets involved. The list needed to die years ago.

I would have to say at the time, the DC-Stuff mailing list made sense, but is it really relevant anymore? With the forums, we seem to have a larger community base, conversations are divied up by topic, folks are more social, and the insane asshattery that rules the dc-stuff list is dealt with swiftly and harshly here on the forums.

I would be inclined to create an announcement only mailing list in its place. It would be nice to have a list that lets me know things like when the CFP opens/closes, last minute venue changes, sudden guest speakers, etc.

I had to revive this post from the grave because nostalgia. We just had our... third move? I think that's right. From Evil Pete's living room to my living room, then to a virtual instance owned by a glorious benefactor and then recently to AWS, where I think it should outlive us all unless I forget to pay the bill.

It's still the same 8 people arguing. They might give you the recipe for roasted donkey nuts or they might serve a top posting newbie their own. I can never tell and I forgot the mailman password ages ago.

Someone once asked me if the DC-Stuff list (post-Shipley) was right for them. I asked, "Are you old? Grizzled? Been there, done that? Tired? Bitchy? Full of arcane knowledge? Are you a survivor? If you are none of these things, can you learn to be? Should you never stop learning, never stop questing towards wisdom, perhaps there is a chance..."

And then if someone joins, I let nature take its course because only the strong survive. There is a grue or two hiding in the darkness. Spies, feds, wiser folk that have been on both sides of the fence and even more. To compare the experience between a forum and a mailing list: A forum is a beautiful bonzai tree. Carefully cultivated, nurtured, timeless. Safe. Something you would not mind showing your boss or future in-law.

A mailing list is gnarled thorns on top of thorns. It's got darkness, danger, toxins, angry bugs and more. It's wild, untamed, save to keep it growing in the right directions, which in this case is around your hacker estate. And when Def-Con was small, it sort of made sense... brave the gnarls and the rose gardener's disease, suffer some stings and the lush green lawn awaits. Upon feeling that soft lawn under your feet, you would have heard a thunderclap and the utili-kilts and jackalope CDs rained from the sky and you danced until you passed out from the heat or the libations.

Those days are gone. There is a pearly gate now and it's safe. Be thankful young ones but take care: someday you will be the old and perhaps wise.

J

[shrdlu]

Re: Updates to dc-stuff mailing list

We'll update it monday! Sorry for the delay, was rebuilding my laptop.

No worries. Bobcat told me (after I posted this) that he'd already emailed Blackbeetle. Whatever he emailed should be what is actually used (rather than what I posted).

Thanks again for everything.

P.S. I'm actually glad that this happened, now that it's nearly over, since it's caused an interesting resurgence of some of the old guard. Recipes for pumpkin soup are currently sought (not here, there).

[The Dark Tangent]

Re: Updates to dc-stuff mailing list

We'll update it monday! Sorry for the delay, was rebuilding my laptop.

Good points, all, and I've fired off an email. I really don't think it's a link on more than just the mailing list web page, but I've been wrong before. I'm used to it.

[shrdlu]

Re: Updates to dc-stuff mailing list

Oh. That link. Assuming you or someone else has not done it, I would suggest an email to DT with the information he requested above:
* when it is active
* what link to publish on which pages on the main defcon website.*

He seems to check email more often than forums.

*- Especially important if it is linked from many places.

Good points, all, and I've fired off an email. I really don't think it's a link on more than just the mailing list web page, but I've been wrong before. I'm used to it.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Updates to dc-stuff mailing list

Oh. That link. Assuming you or someone else has not done it, I would suggest an email to DT with the information he requested above:
* when it is active
* what link to publish on which pages on the main defcon website.*

He seems to check email more often than forums.

*- Especially important if it is linked from many places.

[shrdlu]

Updates to dc-stuff mailing list

Could the powers that be please change the link on the defcon.org web site to point to the new list? We have a nice, new, shiny web page, and it's the time honored way of getting new victims, er, subscribers for the list.

http://dc-stuff.org/mailman/listinfo...f_dc-stuff.org

or even

http://www.dc-stuff.org/

would be great.

Thanks again to Digital Ebola and BobCat for making the effort.

[TheCotMan]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I tried to start a new thread, for a new topic, but. The chicanery around here is getting intense.

Question: who controls permalinks here:

Ulex

Why no new thread?
This "General Announcements" forum is a special exception, as only goons/staff/organizers/mods can post new threads, but all non-banned accounts over 24 hours old can only reply. (Similar to an announce list, but not quite the same.)

The Social forum (/dev/random) may be the least restrictive, as it has fewer rules than any other section, and allows posting of new threads and replies sooner than any other forum-- it is also user-subscribable and unsubscribable in case users don't want to see that less restrictive content.

Nearly all other forums follow the waiting periods outlined in the forced lurking period discussion thread as described in the welcome email for users that sign up to the forums.

Permalink (forums)
Users can post URL in their posts and add them as part of their sigs. SPAM URL are not tolerated.

Links from rendered pages and for descriptions of events can and are added by forum admins. There are 3 forum admins. I'll admit to being one of them, but the other 2 may confess this on their own only if they wish.

I've taken the time to find links to various DCG web sites, and add them to DCG forum discussions, and direct links to off-site DCG forums from these forums.

We've also added links to contest and event pages from the subforums created for these contests oir events.

End:
Now that you have more information than you probably wanted on this, what issues might you have with permalinks and the forums?

[Europus]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I tried to start a new thread, for a new topic, but. The chicanery around here is getting intense.

Question: who controls permalinks here:

Ulex

[ßobÇat]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

DT, quit being so fucking reasonable. We need you to descend with fury upon the list and condemn us as heretics. It's only fair. :)

Except for changing the link to dc-stuff@dc-stuff.org, I think we're good for now. Thanks.

[The Dark Tangent]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

Excellent! Situation resolved.

When it is set up and working, and you have any info you want us to post on defcon.org, send it to me and we'll update the existing information about dc-stuff that is currently on-line.

[TheCotMan]

I hate to almost change the topic, but is dc-girls still active? Do they need rescuing? Because that would prove that irony is SO not dead.

On many levels, this is true, with the obvious inclusion of posting this question on the forums too, instead (?) of posting it on that.
(heh heh)

But .. ITS FUN!

In all honosty, I hope that folks from the list feel welcome to join and romp around the forums.. as much as forum members might now be curious about the list and test the waters instead of relying on a few developed opinions.

Heh-heh. *Them*?!?! *Here!?* Nooo! ;-)

Seriously though, they are welcome to join, just like everyone else. However, after reading through their recent archives, I don't think many of them like the forum environment as much as the mailing list.

[ßobÇat]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I hate to almost change the topic, but is dc-girls still active? Do they need rescuing? Because that would prove that irony is SO not dead.

[TheCotMan]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

That is correct, not that the whines and complaints of non-contributors should be given any weight. For example, do you care what anyone there thinks of this forum or you in particular?

The forum? Sure. I've read through comments about these forums from members and non-members to find what can be added (or removed) to make it more effective as a tool to help getting information about Defcon available, encourage related discussions, and avoid asshatery.

I joined the forums long before 2003, but I didn't like what I found then, and so I left the forums. Obviously, I did come back.

The contest/event subforums came about as an answer to the problem of people being too lazy to search for the proper thread in which to reply. Why care? These mistakes were pointed out by busy mods, which lead to flame-fests from the user being corrected and other members directing flames to the new user, such that 30% of all posts were in /dev/null.

The Specific Contest/Event subforums lead to giving some Contest/Event leaders more controls in the subforums for their events to set/remove stickies. Why? Many reasons, but it helped free mods from settings/unsetting stickies or splitting/merging threads in each contest/event subforum. This has lead to more involvement from various organizers of contests and evemts. The DCG expansion to allow for links to DCG with web pages and/or discussions came about through observations and complaints about inactive DCG.

Complaints about the search system on the forums taking too long with an enforced delay between searches, lead us to a delay that appears to be a better balance.

A user complained about a lack of RSS feeds, and after a short testing period, that was enabled.

Addition of a search <form> at the top of the first page came about as a result of making searching obvious and easier. The addition of a link to the rules at the top, and in multiple places also came about through suggestion.

Ideas to deal with spam, have also come from a few sources and complaints from mods and users.

Many ideas have been put into place to minimize the amount of effort of forum moderators, and through other people's suggestions, we have a drastic cut in /dev/null posts per month, as well as Fucktard Hall.

Yes, I care about people's complaints on the forums. If a fix for the complaint does not hurt the present members, and "improves" the forums, then one of the benevolent dictators may ask for discussion before including a change, or just make a change.

Some changes help us, and some don't. Some changes are liked, and others are not. We continue to try to make thie forums better for the members that frequent them, but we know we can't please everyone.

You went on to provide a bit of phychoanalysis, you shouldn't have.

Awww shucks. It 'twasn't nothin' :-)
[No Problem.]

Most people would not have bothered to read it all.

[ßobÇat]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

OBviously I need to increase my use of beer and strippers.

[shrdlu]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

Let's see.. no big conspiracy on why I posted here first...

Okay. Pete notified you, you should have notified the list or its moderators, not this forum. Are you a parent? If so, eventually your child will marry - you'll want to hear about that from the child, not from one of your childs friends or someone else...

Please, this isn't helpful. I'm not sure which one of you this is, but I have a couple of suspects. It isn't necessary. It's over; everything's okay. Lighten up.

Value statements were made about their list, off of their list...

That is correct, not that the whines and complaints of non-contributors should be given any weight. For example, do you care what anyone there thinks of this forum or you in particular? You went on to provide a bit of phychoanalysis, you shouldn't have.

Nothing like playing into everyone's beliefs about the inhabitants of dc-stuff. I'd apologize for whoever this is, but I'm hoping it can just be ignored. It's really bad when someone can make bobcat look mature and civilized, you know?