DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

[The Dark Tangent]

Evil Pete is stepping back from hosting the DC-STUFF mailing list, and DEFCON will be taking it over. When I say DEFCON, I mean me, until I can get a list admin or two lined up.

This creates an opportunity for us. Use this thread to talk/rant about what you like and don't like atoubt DC-STUFF. Now is the time to change it, keep it the same, or spawn off a different mailing list.

What say you?

[noid]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

The DC-Stuff mailing list licks donkey nuts. Actual donkey nuts. For the last few years its basically been the same 8 people arguing with each other and flaming anyone else who gets involved. The list needed to die years ago.

I would have to say at the time, the DC-Stuff mailing list made sense, but is it really relevant anymore? With the forums, we seem to have a larger community base, conversations are divied up by topic, folks are more social, and the insane asshattery that rules the dc-stuff list is dealt with swiftly and harshly here on the forums.

I would be inclined to create an announcement only mailing list in its place. It would be nice to have a list that lets me know things like when the CFP opens/closes, last minute venue changes, sudden guest speakers, etc.

[The Dark Tangent]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

So, what about a moderated list? Or a list that gets auto traffic from certain forums areas, the defcon RSS feed, etc?

I would be inclined to create an announcement only mailing list in its place. It would be nice to have a list that lets me know things like when the CFP opens/closes, last minute venue changes, sudden guest speakers, etc.

[noid]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

A forum to mailing list thingamajig would be kinda neat. Especially for those at work who get their web usage monitored.

[TheCotMan]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I lurked on the dc-stuff list for a while; it was like an unmanaged /dev/null with occasional topics about Defcon. I seem to recall a lot of political topics, and allegations questioning sanity or paranoia through suggested "black helocopter" halucinations.

Is rapeseed oil bad for you? Who cares. Based on what I saw, it would have been easy for anyone to troll that list.

I am told that it was an entertaining list when there were many more intelligent people on the list, and discussions of things like guns, ammo, and topics related to Defcon, but from what I saw a few years back, many of the core people that contributed to making it worth reading, left (for one reason or another.)

I like the idea of an announce list.

Moderated list? Scary. With the levels of spam at what they are today, and the pains of trying to migrate a list, the moderators of such a list would likely be busy. I suspect there would be claims of censorship, unfair bias, and favoritism from most of the few remaining active members of the present list, if they were to migrate over to the new one. (Hey! Give this job to Grifter! ]:> )

Predictions:
"Waa-waa. You let 'x' post his rant about 'blah'blah' but you didn't let my flame-fest go through. You suck! You broke my flamethrower."

"What do you mean my message was eaten by your spam filter? I think you did it on purpose because you want to silence me and my views."

I would subscribe to an announcement list.

[converge]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

Yeah .. I remember subscribing to dc-stuff a few.. er.. 6?7? years back.. that didn't keep my attention very long.

I like noids thought .. a list-based broadcast of forums posts would actually be more handy for me than the RSS feed. I often find myself using the 'email subscribed' option .. basically reading people's replies to posts I subscribe to without having to hit a web browser. It also allows for client-side filters..

Maybe a couple lists based on function? dc-announce, dc-forums, ... dc-groups, dc-lead ... dc-pr0nomatic

[DaKahuna]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I subscribe to the dc-stff list and find about one out of every 100 messages and maybe one out of every 20 topics of interest.

I would definately drop it for a moderated list.

[converge]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I'm not saying that dc-stuff needs to die. If the people enjoy doing what they do, what the hell.. ya know? I am saying that if lists are being considered as effective transport 1) do not incorporate dc-stuff .. ever. 2) it could be useful. I think dragging that list into moderation or any form of value will just create frustration on many fronts, as TheCotMan deftly pointed out.

[shrdlu]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I'm not saying that dc-stuff needs to die. If the people enjoy doing what they do, what the hell.. ya know? I am saying that if lists are being considered as effective transport 1) do not incorporate dc-stuff .. ever. 2) it could be useful. I think dragging that list into moderation or any form of value will just create frustration on many fronts, as TheCotMan deftly pointed out.

If Dark Tangent wants to rescue the list, for whatever purpose, sure, why not? I find it a desparate pool of misogynism, where the same few people scream the same few insults over and over. The unfortunate thing about it was that some of the people that left, did it the hard way. Sinster was the final death, as far as I was concerned.

There's some merit in saving it, but I'd suggest that attempting to censor it would be like cleaning up a cess pool with a sieve. It's possible, certainly, but it would seem that the essential pieces would be removed along with the garbage.

An announcement only list would be lovely. It doesn't have to be dc-stuff. I started keeping tabs on the forums this year because I could see that attempting to do coffee wars without doing so would be much more difficult. Forums are one of my least favorite forms of communication, but they still have their place.

I do admit that I see the Defcon CFP, and other announcements, on multiple venues (ISN, Full Disclosure, Bugtraq...). Just the same, it'd be nice to not have it lost in the noise. A mailing list about defcon; what a thought!

Oh, I should add that I've been subscribed to the dc-stuff mailing list, off and on (more off than on of late) since the mid-nineties. Now that's scary.

[shrdlu]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

Evil Pete is stepping back from hosting the DC-STUFF mailing list, and DEFCON will be taking it over. When I say DEFCON, I mean me, until I can get a list admin or two lined up.

As I've said elsewhere, if you really mean to rescue it, go for it. I wonder if this means you will be moving the archived posts as well? I know that since the switch to mailman, the list has been archived.

This creates an opportunity for us. Use this thread to talk/rant about what you like and don't like atoubt DC-STUFF. Now is the time to change it, keep it the same, or spawn off a different mailing list.

What say you?

I do agree with others that the current worth of dc-stuff isn't much. On the other hand, through no reason I can explain, I miss it, and quietly resubscribe now and then, for a time. Its heyday is long over. Many of the best are dead, or have simply moved on. Still, I'm sentimental.

Don't spend too much time or energy on it. If it's just a machine, and perhaps someone to watch that the list is up and running, fine.

[converge]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I think shrdlu just volunteered :p

[shrdlu]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I think shrdlu just volunteered :p

I would be the veritable lightning rod of controversy.

Why don't you ask the current list? I note that *none* of the people on that list who might care, are in these forums (and reading on some regular basis).

Hmmm, I think I'll go over there and point out this thread.

Heads up.

[zorch]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

This creates an opportunity for us. Use this thread to talk/rant about what you like and don't like atoubt DC-STUFF. Now is the time to change it, keep it the same, or spawn off a different mailing list.

What say you?

I vote no change.

It's not what it was, but it is what it has evolved to be.

[shrdlu]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I vote no change.

It's not what it was, but it is what it has evolved to be.

I deliberately resubscribed to the (dc-stuff) list to let people know that this was happening. I think it's a bit unfair to not give them a chance to choose, since they're the ones currently affected. I believe that the people subscribed there, and here, is not a large overlap (although there is some).

The number of people who've managed that list over the years would surprise you. It isn't self sustaining. I know at least two who've burned out and moved on, and who can blame them.

[zorch]

Re: DC-STUFF mailing list is moving

I deliberately resubscribed to the (dc-stuff) list to let people know that this was happening. I think it's a bit unfair to not give them a chance to choose, since they're the ones currently affected. I believe that the people subscribed there, and here, is not a large overlap (although there is some).

Good call. I (we?) appreciate it. I hadn't noticed this thread.

The number of people who've managed that list over the years would surprise you. It isn't self sustaining. I know at least two who've burned out and moved on, and who can blame them.

It's probably quite tedious. I think the current group has been at it for about 3-4 years. They're pretty good at it, but may need a break.

I have the resources to host the list and/or archives, if the need arises. I'd also be willing to give one of the admins a break, at their discretion. Relevant individuals can drop me a mail.