Banned from the Riv?

[astcell]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Security guards are briefed that if Red Bull cans are thrown out windows, the terrorists have won.

Remember back when something had to HAPPEN before someone got into trouble? Or am I that old?

[Abby_Normal]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Security guards are briefed that if Red Bull cans are thrown out windows, the terrorists have won.

Remember back when something had to HAPPEN before someone got into trouble? Or am I that old?

Nobody bring a Lite Brite and we should be ok!!

I felt like we were all getting the blame for the actions of a few. Most of the parties didn't break any rules or do anything wrong.

I think this is only going to get worse. Aside from the poor treatment we got last time, the Riv seems to have no interest in working with us to make next year better. I know we'd be glad to send people from our crew out to work with them in advance to avoid the problems of last year, and find ways to do what we do that would still be acceptable (and profitable) to the Riv.

[blauman]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Security guards are briefed that if Red Bull cans are thrown out windows, the terrorists have won.

Remember back when something had to HAPPEN before someone got into trouble? Or am I that old?

We are getting old... remember when signing off Defcon with one hand :)

[astcell]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Lite Brite! Scavenger Hunt item!

[Dallas]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

One cannot be banned from the riveria unless they can activley figure out who you are. Most "bans" are for the casino, other wise it is like the other hotel bans which are enforced by a $ 7.00 per hour security guard who has been dealt with.

All but 2 of the security folks are gone from last year, and only one is an issue. I think based on last years performance, many have ideas how to keep him busy. Dont know how is other "guards" will react.

The other issue is however, dealing with undercover PD. They were fairly easy to see - Shoes and age gave most away. But were quick to show up.

We need to find a place to setup a party which is away from security, accessable by most everyone, but restricted to those how know or can answer a simple question..(what is 1 + 1?) =3 something any computer nerd could figure out in a sec.

Also need alternatives if they get busted and ways to protect those at the party.

Also, I would like to suggest a beverage tasting and shot contest. Also I need someone to bring me some moonshine for my beverage this year, as I dont have access to any now.

- Dallas

[theprez98]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

We need to find a place to setup a party which is away from security, accessable by most everyone, but restricted to those how know or can answer a simple question..(what is 1 + 1?) =3 something any computer nerd could figure out in a sec.

Also need alternatives if they get busted and ways to protect those at the party.

Why not just have a legal party and avoid the shenanigans involved with secret locations, secret pass phrases and protecting underage drinkers.

[noid]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Especially when its at a hotel where security can just enter the room anyways.

You: Cant come in unless you know the secret codeword
Hotel Security: Is it 'Fuck You'?. Step aside, sport.

You'd probably be better off restricting boozing to those 21+ and filter out the shitheads by making it something similar to the Network Ninja party (need to know someone 'in the know' to get an invite).

[Dallas]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

The party last year was based on "in the know", but still turned out well over a hundred+, hard to keep a secret. Many of us want to share the love with our fellow defconers, but in our own style. We dont tend to be exclusive, but after last year need to find a way to protect ourselves..

[[Syntax]]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Well.. I was "in the know" for many a party, one I got stopped at the door by a self proclaimed doorman. Who honestly didnt give a crap if you were invited or not. The other party I tried my damndest to make contact with someone to get an invite and after many a failed attempt ended up having a female who didnt even know whos party it was score invites for several of us.

So the key to getting into a party is not being in the know, its having breasts..

[Abby_Normal]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Why not just have a legal party and avoid the shenanigans involved with secret locations, secret pass phrases and protecting underage drinkers.

We tried that. Told the Riv months in advance that we would be having a party. Carded everyone. All it did was let the Riv know who we were. Doesn't seem to pay to play by the rules. We did everything up front.

I heard stories about people being turned away from our party by people who didn't work for us, but for another party on the same floor. We had an open door policy (as long as you were over 21). We'd kick you out if you were being an ass, but anyone could come it. I am sorry to those friends of ours who were wrongly turned away.


Perhaps we need some kind of comittee to go between DC and the Riv managment to avoid problems next time. Many of the Riv staff we talked to didn't hadn't been told anything about what was going on, I think that cause a lot of problems.

[cjunky]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Wotcha.

Just to clear a couple of things up.

The redbull incident was a little more serious than described. The fucktard that threw the can waited until there was someone below. They missed but more by luck and physics than intention, thoiugh the intention may have been just to "scare" the staff member below.

Everything after that was largely collateral damage.

Im pretty sure that the guards didnt wander down the lower floors fucking with people. Why? cos I was one of 4 defcon staff with them. I turned up seconds after it happened and left with the staff.

What happened to abby's party sucked. Thats why I put my neck on the line a couple of times, but like I said by that point it was all pretty much collateral damage. Once you stir up a hornets nest its pretty near damned impossible to pacify it.

That can incident turned what was mild harrasment all over the con into full on fuck you very much.

As for the undercover cops, yeah they were reasonably easy to spot but they made no effort to hide. Again i know this becuase I spent most of staurday with them.
From my perspective they were amongst the best cops ive ever spent time with (and trust me ive spent some time with cops in my past ;) they were open, honest and genuinely interested in the con.

They overlooked several embarrasing incidents, made all the more embarrasing by the fact that i had to escort them into those incidents and remained in pretty good humour throughout.

If people got banned, i like to hope that they deserved it. if they didnt then is there anyone here that doesnt believe goons will fight their case?

Some of us spent alot of time making sure the hotels first impression was a good one. in my case it was the first con where i drank almost nothing and didnt party.

When we had finished though the head of security was singing our praises. As were LV Metro. If thats changed over time then i guess we have work cut out for us again. What was done once can be done again.

those of you who have been to a few more cons than is good for you. remember some of the incursions from hotel security? can you honestly say this was more than some of those?

anyone remember when metro descended on us with helicopters? i spent several hours hiding in a hot tub while bathing under searchlights.

this was nothing. actually i woulds say most people didnt even know there was hassle going on.

As always there will be parties.

As noid said the secret to avoiding the hassle is to be official. Do ninja get hassled? Does ceasar? why? Becuase they are masters of keeping a low profile when necessary but still doing what they want to do.

And the next time i hear someone whining that they cant do something becuase "they wont let me" im personally going to spank them.

dont be a bunch of pussies :)


By the way, I issue you all with a severe weather warning. Im going to party this con. Ive been preparing and there may be collateral damage. who wants to be my collateral damage?

cj

[Abby_Normal]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Wotcha.

Just to clear a couple of things up.

The redbull incident was a little more serious than described. The fucktard that threw the can waited until there was someone below. They missed but more by luck and physics than intention, thoiugh the intention may have been just to "scare" the staff member below.

I heard they found him cause they heard him crying.

What happened to abby's party sucked. Thats why I put my neck on the line a couple of times, but like I said by that point it was all pretty much collateral damage. Once you stir up a hornets nest its pretty near damned impossible to pacify it.

Thanks for the kind words, we tried to play by the rules, and we did everything the LV cops and riv staff asked, but it wasn't enough.

I guess one bad apple really can spoil it for everyone.

[cjunky]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Thanks for the kind words, we tried to play by the rules, and we did everything the LV cops and riv staff asked, but it wasn't enough.

I guess one bad apple really can spoil it for everyone.

Isnt that always the case? You guys took the brunt of the grief. That sucks. I wish it hadnt happened but its water under the bridge now.

If theres anything I can do to help going forward you know I will.

Hopefully there wont be the same hassle this year. We worked damned hard last year to find some common ground and make a good first impression. It might not feel like it from where you are standing but I think we succeeded.

Thats why this year im determine to spend some time partying. Ive been preparing for it.....I havent drunk alcohol in almost a year. those who know me should be afraid ;)

Anyone that gets between me and beer may need medical assistance.

Cj

[theprez98]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

We tried that. Told the Riv months in advance that we would be having a party. Carded everyone. All it did was let the Riv know who we were. Doesn't seem to pay to play by the rules. We did everything up front.

I heard stories about people being turned away from our party by people who didn't work for us, but for another party on the same floor. We had an open door policy (as long as you were over 21). We'd kick you out if you were being an ass, but anyone could come it. I am sorry to those friends of ours who were wrongly turned away.


Perhaps we need some kind of comittee to go between DC and the Riv managment to avoid problems next time. Many of the Riv staff we talked to didn't hadn't been told anything about what was going on, I think that cause a lot of problems.

Having never been to DEFCON I will differ to others judgments on how to run their own things, but it seems to me that your prior communication with the hotel was the correct way to do things; and the real issue was the fact that some fucknuts at the hotel never properly communicated it to security and/or other hotel staff. In that case, I still think it's a better idea to go the legal route as opposed to secret passwords and locations, but that's just my opinion.

[cjunky]

Re: Banned from the Riv?

Having never been to DEFCON I will differ to others judgments on how to run their own things, but it seems to me that your prior communication with the hotel was the correct way to do things; and the real issue was the fact that some fucknuts at the hotel never properly communicated it to security and/or other hotel staff. In that case, I still think it's a better idea to go the legal route as opposed to secret passwords and locations, but that's just my opinion.

in defence of abby and her crew, they really did try to be above board. The hotel was notified that there would be a party and an effort was made to comply with hotel wishes.

The problems were where the hotel heard party they heard small gathering of friends in one of their high roller suites. I dodnt think they realised just how hard we party.

The second problem was that there was another slightly less controlled party in the other high roller suite accross the hall.

The third problem was the queue of literally hundreds of guests trying to get into both parties.

The fourth problem was the fact that they didnt keep normal people away from us and there were infact normal people in the same block and even on the same floor in very expensive penthouse accomodation.

The fith problem was the complaints being phoned in to the security office and hotel switchboard at a rate of approximately one every 5 minutes.

The sixth problem was LV Metro being called to the site even though there were undercover working on site.

The seventh problem was the out of control drunken people spilling out of both parties causing damage, mayhem and further complaints to both the hotel and LV Metro.

However despite all this the hotel and the cops cut the con slack. They came and spoke to us. They treated us with respect.

Both parties were allowed to continue but got read the riot act and told that as LV Metro were on site there was no room for error. IDs must be checked. This is a hotel with a gaming license. it has a license to loose. The Alexis just had peeling paintwork and questionable stains to loose.

However out of all our controls some fucknut decides hes going to arial bombard a member of the hotel staff with a full can of redbull from many floors up. At that point someone effective added kerosene and a blowtorch to an already flammable situation.

At that point attendees became the enemy. That fundamental shift in attitude was visible from the way abby got treated, and the way the rest of the night progressed.

could we have salvaged something form the ashes? not a chance.

I was in a similar incident while working as a bouncer in england. In my case there was a student residence above the club i worked. The students were made because their new residence was cramped and harsh so they expressed their anger by trying to land a couple of projectiles on "the official looking people below", namely me and my team.

Did we respond? hell yeah. were we overenthusiastic. hell yeah. There were several points of significant structual damage when we finished.

So I have the greatest sympathy for the hotel and what they did. However I dont condone it. Abby and her whole crew are people I count as friends. The way she personaly was treated was wrong. However put a mouthy strong willed woman in a situation like that and you just know theres going to be trouble. My biggest regret about that night was that I still think that if I had been there it would have been a whole lot more peaceul and there would have been less aggro for my friends. Even though I know I couldnt be everywhere at once, and that night I needed to be in atleast 4 places at once, I feel I let them down.

None of that changes the fact that ultimately the parties were doomed anyway. All we really lost was the ability to choose our own terms and shut them down peacefully. We had already agreed with the hotel that we would close down the black and white ball that was on the same floor as those parties, and that was an "official" party.

Whats the solution?

I really hope it isnt for everyone to go off site. That would be sad. Why? becuase I would miss my friends. I am one of the key people responsible for security at the con at night. I work with a team of dedicated loyal goon-staff. That means Wherever they are, I am already there watching their backs.

Does that mean we goons need to work out wht to do? Yes. We need to come up with answers and help, but you guys need to help yourselves too.

Learn from the true uber-party-masters. Ceasar and his crew could probably throw a party in a trash can and make it one of the coolest parties of the year. Barkode could organise a party in the middle of a dry county and it would still be overflowing with booze. They arent the only ones. If there is one thing I will always have faith in, thats the defcon veteran's ability to throw parties no matter where no matter how.

At the end of the day what sort of hackers would we be if we said "its too hard to subvert that system, im off to knit jumpers instead".

just my rambling two cents ;)

Cj