Boston Versus ATHF

[steampunk]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

What would you guys be saying if someone planted a real bomb in a neighborhood and it was ignored by the authorities until it went off?

Do you really expect any different given the post 9/11 environment?

I've personally seen IEDs that were less complicated then these devices.

Did the authorities over-react? Perhaps, but to me it seems better than not reacting at all.

I am personally annoyed by these types of situations, regardless of it being post-9/11. It's out of some absurdist comedy.

*drops his walkman*
Onlooker: "HE'S GOT A BOMB!"
Cop: *bang ba-bang bang*

No one is thinking rationally. I'd like to avoid having a city shut down because someone didn't go through the proper circuit. It's not just citizens. The police have also become reactionary.

[jur1st]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

Hopefully this thread avoids becoming too political, though I believe that fear crosses all political lines.

The events of yesterday are rediculous and if I were an executive at Time Warner there is no way that I would issue any kind of apology because there was no crime committed. The two fellows who were arrested may go down on the public nuisance charge, but the charge of planting a hoax device has no chance.

The Mass. Statute under which they are charged requires the specific intent to cause 'anxiety, unrest, fear, or personal discomfort...'

It is very clear that there was no such intent in this case and the charges should be thrown out with a firm scolding to be issued to the AG for failing to investigate the facts before filing charges.

The fact that authorities overreacted does nothing to change the innocent intent held by the defendants.

In the end, it remains clear that the moon rulez. #1

[theprez98]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

Hopefully this thread avoids becoming too political, though I believe that fear crosses all political lines.

The events of yesterday are rediculous and if I were an executive at Time Warner there is no way that I would issue any kind of apology because there was no crime committed. The two fellows who were arrested may go down on the public nuisance charge, but the charge of planting a hoax device has no chance.

The Mass. Statute under which they are charged requires the specific intent to cause 'anxiety, unrest, fear, or personal discomfort...'

It is very clear that there was no such intent in this case and the charges should be thrown out with a firm scolding to be issued to the AG for failing to investigate the facts before filing charges.

The fact that authorities overreacted does nothing to change the innocent intent held by the defendants.

In the end, it remains clear that the moon rulez. #1

I agree that the charges are pretty much BS, but I don't think authorities were wrong to act as they did. As I said, perhaps the reaction was too much, but I'd rather have them investigate an unknown device as opposed to simply ignoring it.

[bascule]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

Not sure how many of you have seen this, but the individuals behind the marketing campaign gave a press conference after their court hearing. Their response to the ludicrous situation? A ludicrous press conference, where they only talked about '70s haircuts. Video here:

http://wbztv.com/video/?cid=9&id=28369@wbz.dayport.com

[renderman]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

The question I have is: Anyone got the schematics? I really want to start cranking these things out, they look great

[bascule]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

Do you really expect any different given the post 9/11 environment?

If you ask me the "post-9/11 mentality" is just a euphemism for the fact that the terrorists have already won by transforming our population into a bunch of neurotics who go nuts at the slightest hint of danger.

In Seattle local law enforcement reacted with reason instead of hysteria:

http://www.eatenbygod.net/Mooninites.jpg

I think it's really sad when all it takes to instill mass panic is a piece of cardboard covered with LEDs.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

holy fucking christ... these things are starting to hit eBay and the prices are outrageous.

link | link | link

search for "Mooninite" and "LED" and see what you find. at least one auction (with a Buy It Now price of $500) doesn't even have a photo or anything.

not that i regularly am a fan of shady business practices... but you could make a fucking KILLING selling knock-offs of these. put your soldering skills to the test and start up some eBay auctions that make numerous references and allusions to the Boston scare without directly saying the sign was from that incident... that's one way to pay for your trip to defcon and back this year, with enough left over to cover your bar tabs for at least the first day or two.

hell, look at the massively detailed photos in that last auction link. it's enough to help you make a near-exacting replica. if i weren't flying out to norway in a couple days i'd even take a crack at it... the numbers are staggering.

[Thorn]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

The question I have is: Anyone got the schematics? I really want to start cranking these things out, they look great

holy fucking christ... these things are starting to hit eBay and the prices are outrageous.

link | link | link

search for "Mooninite" and "LED" and see what you find. at least one auction (with a Buy It Now price of $500) doesn't even have a photo or anything.

not that i regularly am a fan of shady business practices... but you could make a fucking KILLING selling knock-offs of these. put your soldering skills to the test and start up some eBay auctions that make numerous references and allusions to the Boston scare without directly saying the sign was from that incident... that's one way to pay for your trip to defcon and back this year, with enough left over to cover your bar tabs for at least the first day or two.

hell, look at the massively detailed photos in that last auction link. it's enough to help you make a near-exacting replica. if i weren't flying out to norway in a couple days i'd even take a crack at it... the numbers are staggering.

Apparently, this guy stole one a couple of weeks ago, and then posted about it on Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderlin/358762169/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderl...7594512553078/

Between the photos from the last eBay auction Dev posted and these links, you could probably make one relatively easily.

[noid]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

I just watched the press conference. Probably some of the best television I have watched in years.

'I'm sorry, thats not a hair related question'

[Thorn]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

According to WBZ-TV in Boston, one of the suspects, Peter Berdovsky has released two email statements:

"My boss from the Cartoon Network's ad agency just called -- she is asking that we pretty please keep everything on the DL"


"I regret that this incident had created such anguish and disruption... I certainly never intended to do anything to frighten this community...

Also according to WBZ-TV, Turner Broadcasting has reportedly agreed to cover the emergency costs. Those cost may exceed $1,000,000.

[Thorn]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

For those of you who think the city officials overracted, I'm just wondering what you think the proper response should have been?

Keep in mind that in the same time frame that these devices were being dealt with, Boston PD also was dealing with two pipe bombs. Also, Turner Broadcasting kept silent about the devices until about 4PM. Rather strange considering that the incident had been broadcast on CNN (a Turner Company) for some hours prior to 4.

WBZ-TV also released this poll of Boston area residents:

Do you think city officials overreacted?
58% Just About Right
32% Overreacted
8% Not Far Enough

[bascule]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

For those of you who think the city officials overracted, I'm just wondering what you think the proper response should have been?

Analyzing the properties of the devices in question and seeing that they are ostensibly benign. I don't see how the devices could possibly be bombs any more than a DC14 badge, or if you don't think that comparison is apt, a neon sign or an LED marquee.

I know that's easy to say sitting here behind a computer, but one Seattle sheriff's office who dealt with the devices feels the same way:

http://www.eatenbygod.net/Mooninites.jpg

"To us they're so obviously not suspicious," said King County sheriff's spokesman John Urquhart. "They're not suspicious devices or packages. We don't consider them dangerous."

I thought Bruce Schneier had a great take on this whole thing:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...rorist_em.html

The story is almost too funny to write about seriously. To advertise the Cartoon Network show "Aqua Teen Hunger Force," the network put up 38 blinking signs (kind of like Lite Brites) around the Boston area. The Boston police decided -- with absolutely no supporting evidence -- that these were bombs and shut down parts of the city.

Now the police look stupid, but they're trying really not hard not to act humiliated:
Governor Deval Patrick told the Associated Press: "It's a hoax -- and it's not funny."

Unfortunately, it is funny. What isn't funny is now the Boston government is trying to prosecute the artist and the network instead of owning up to their own stupidity. The police now claim that they were "hoax" explosive devices. I don't think you can claim they are hoax explosive devices unless they were intended to look like explosive devices, which merely a cursory look at any of them shows that they weren't.

[...]

[steampunk]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

I thought that this was affronted by a group rather than a person(s) in particular. Someone obviously contacted law enforcement agencies informing them of a potential bomb threat. The police did their job according to the (mis)information they were given. Then the news media decided to exacerbate the problem by blaring buzz words into the American unconscious.

BOMB, TERRORISM, SCARE, FEAR

It's the same ol' rigmaro perpetuated by human fear of, well, everything.

[LosT]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

Really easy to make. I'll start a schematic tomorrow-

LosT

[Voltage Spike]

Re: Boston Versus ATHF

For those of you who think the city officials overracted, I'm just wondering what you think the proper response should have been?

I remember back in high school (way before "9/11") when the entire school was shut down for a day (students were kept on campus in the parking lot) because an unknown cardboard box had been found. After calling in all the appropriate officials and investigating, it was revealed that the cardboard box was, in fact, an empty box.

Not too far back, someone set their briefcase down in front of a building and forgot about it. The briefcase was eventually blown up (why do they blow up items they think might be explosives, anyway), and the guy who went to the secretary looking for his lost item was quite disappointed.

Even for known situations, it can get a little crazy. In a school lab, an individual left a mercury thermometer in a styrofoam cup of water while they were microwaving. The thermometer broke, spilling mercury into the water. The end result was that the entire building (not just the room) was evacuated until they could get a hazardous material crew to come in.

All three incidents, along with this one is Boston, are examples of fear ruling over reason. Would I be singing a different song if the outcomes had been different? Maybe, but how can we really expect to get anything done in society if we always choose the most improbable outcome as the one to act upon?

Keep in mind that in the same time frame that these devices were being dealt with, Boston PD also was dealing with two pipe bombs.

The problem is that I'm now forced to question the situation. Were they really dealing with two pipe bombs, or were they merely suspicious pipes? Were they parts for a pipe bomb or the assembled unit? Was their response to those pipes in the seven figure range?

Also, Turner Broadcasting kept silent about the devices until about 4PM.

I didn't hear about them until well after 4PM. It could simply be the case that the half-dozen guys (guessing) involved were busy at work ... no alterior motives.

WBZ-TV also released this poll of Boston area residents:

Do you think city officials overreacted?

What about a follow-up survey: Do you think a bomb is likely to be highly visible, lit with multiple lights, have no hidden parts, and showing a moderately-known
cartoon character?

Someone obviously contacted law enforcement agencies informing them of a potential bomb threat. The police did their job according to the (mis)information they were given.

But why should police act upon the unprofessional information given by whomever calls in? If I had told an officer at the scene that "No, those aren't bombs", whom should he listen to? Personally, I think the officers should use their own judgement and that shifting the blame to the suspicious caller seems disingenuous.