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  • F-22 can't handle Date line

    http://dailytech.com/Lockheeds+F22+R...rticle6225.htm

    Six Lockheed F-22 Raptors have Y2K-esque glitch of their own over the Pacific

    Lockheed’s F-22 Raptor is the most advanced fighter in the world with its stealth capabilities, advanced radar, state of the art weapons systems and ultra-efficient turbofans which allow the F-22 to "supercruise" at supersonic speeds without an afterburner. The Raptor has gone up against the best that the US Air Force and Navy has to offer taking out F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18 Super Hornets during simulated war games in Alaska. The Raptor-led "Blue Air" team was able to rack up an impressive 241-to-2 kill ratio during the exercise against the "Red Air" threat -- the two kills on the blue team were from the 30-year old F-15 teammates and not the new Raptors.

    But while the simulated war games were a somewhat easy feat for the Raptor, something more mundane was able to cripple six aircraft on a 12 to 15 hours flight from Hawaii to Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan. The U.S. Air Force's mighty Raptor was felled by the International Date Line (IDL).

    When the group of Raptors crossed over the IDL, multiple computer systems crashed on the planes. Everything from fuel subsystems, to navigation and partial communications were completely taken offline. Numerous attempts were made to "reboot" the systems to no avail.

    Luckily for the Raptors, there were no weather issues that day so visibility was not a problem. Also, the Raptors had their refueling tankers as guide dogs to "carry" them back to safety. "They needed help. Had they gotten separated from their tankers or had the weather been bad, they had no attitude reference. They had no communications or navigation," said Retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd. "They would have turned around and probably could have found the Hawaiian Islands. But if the weather had been bad on approach, there could have been real trouble.”

    "The tankers brought them back to Hawaii. This could have been real serious. It certainly could have been real serious if the weather had been bad," Shepperd continued. "It turned out OK. It was fixed in 48 hours. It was a computer glitch in the millions of lines of code, somebody made an error in a couple lines of the code and everything goes."

    Luckily for the pilots behind the controls of the Raptors, they were not involved in a combat situation. Had they been, it could have been a disastrous folly by the U.S. Air Force to have to admit that their aircraft which cost $125+ million USD apiece were knocked out of the sky due to a few lines of computer code. "And luckily this time we found out about it before combat. We got it fixed with tiger teams in about 48 hours and the airplanes were flying again, completed their deployment. But this could have been real serious in combat," said Shepperd.
    Never drink anything larger than your head!






  • #2
    Re: F-22 can't handle Date line

    Sounds like Lockheed has been recruiting on a tight budget(ITT and Devry :P.)

    At least in this case you can show some sympathy. Not just anyone can do the physics implemented in that code. If you've been paying attention to what the NSA has been revealing in there cases against mathematicians, and cryptographers for the past 3 decades you know there technology is always at least 20 years ahead of what's being researched at MIT, and Harvard. You know this was just as important as there research on communications satellites.


    Of course it helps to have a key to the patent office...

    It's also worth noting that at least 3/4 of the IED's being planting against the US in Iraq right now where salvaged from F18 missiles with faulty heads.

    Also on the "stable" design of the F18 there are high altitude bugs in the gyro software that send the stabilizer system into a finite loop.
    Last edited by VAX_to_PBX; February 26, 2007, 13:05.

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    • #3
      Re: F-22 can't handle Date line

      Originally posted by VAX_to_PBX View Post
      It's also worth noting that at least 3/4 of the IED's being planting against the US in Iraq right now where salvaged from F18 missiles with faulty heads.
      Not sure where you got this data, but having been directly involved in counter-IED I would dispute it very much.
      "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

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      • #4
        Re: F-22 can't handle Date line

        Yeah I was being a bit haste. It's more like 1/4 according to general statistics although you can't get exact numbers from fractions. Hope that doesn't have negative results on non-existent credibility.

        From What I read on blogs, and journalist reports I get these broadened numbers based on there percentages.

        1/4 = Faulty launched missiles, and/or payloads from missiles from shot down aircraft.

        2/4 = A wide range of explosives from raided coalition, and US bases in Iraq(Makes for good video too.)

        1/4 = Weaponry smuggled across the borders from all sides.

        I know that isn't accurate, but I'm not to interested in marketing death in the first place. I'll leave that to you, and the US political system.

        By the way I know you're probably gonna hate me even more for saying this, but your counter-IED policy's, and procedures are obviously failing. Even though American media is is refusing to reveal real information as a favor to there sources. Telecommunications provides a means for the real information to leak. Entire US bases in Iraq are being over taken by dedicated insurgents with nothing more that 25 year old weapons, and no armor. Lets hope they never get modernized weaponry, and effective IED, and road side attacks are carried out at least every 3 days in various parts of Iraq. The insurgents success is steadily increasing with every action the UN forces take.
        Last edited by VAX_to_PBX; February 27, 2007, 08:43.

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        • #5
          Re: F-22 can't handle Date line

          Originally posted by VAX_to_PBX View Post
          From What I read on blogs, and journalist reports I get these broadened numbers based on there percentages.

          1/4 = Faulty launched missiles, and/or payloads from missiles from shot down aircraft.

          2/4 = A wide range of explosives from raided coalition, and US bases in Iraq(Makes for good video too.)

          1/4 = Weaponry smuggled across the borders from all sides.
          In my experience, the overwhelmingly large majority of weapons used to make IEDs are mostly old stuff already in country from Saddam's regime. More importantly, where are all these faulty launched missiles? In 2003, no Iraqi aircraft even left the ground (thus none where shot at/shot down). In 1991, only a handful of Iraqi aircraft were engaged (and only 2 by F/A-18s). So this supposedly large supply of faulty air-launched missiles as a source of explosives for IEDs just doesn't exist.
          Originally posted by VAX_to_PBX View Post
          By the way I know you're probably gonna hate me even more for saying this, but your counter-IED policy's, and procedures are obviously failing. Even though American media is is refusing to reveal real informations as a favor to there sources. Telecommunications provides a means for the real information to leak. Entire US bases in Iraq are being over taken by dedicated insurgents with nothing more that 25 year old weapons, and no armor. Lets hope they never get modernized weaponry, and effective IED, and road side attacks are carried out at least every 3 days in various parts of Iraq. The insurgents success is steadily increasing with every action the UN forces takes.
          It's interesting you should mention counter-IED policy, and no, I don't hate you, I just disagree with you based on experience. I wish I could go into more detail. I wouldn't go so far as to say it has been successful, but there is a specific intent with counter-IED policy in regards to types of IEDs and that is working (ambiguious, sorry, the best I can do).

          I'd say you would be hard-pressed to find an "entire US base in Iraq" being overtaken by insurgents. This simply isn't the case. While many bases are subject to constant attacks (small arms fire, mortars, etc.), I don't know of any bases that have been "over taken" in any sense of the word.

          As for frequency of IEDs, once again I will be ambigious and say "a lot".

          Having served in Iraq twice now (flown combat missions over Iraq during the beginning of the war and then on the ground most recently doing counter-IED) I honestly believe anyone in the states would be hard-pressed to get a real picture of what's going on without actually being there. Most news organizations do NOT have full-time, embedded reporters but rely on "sources" and "stringers" for almost everything. Virtually every news story is tainted by bad sources. Milblogs of soldiers are probably the closest thing to being accurate, but even then the military has pretty tight restrictions on what a servicemember can say (and believe me, they spend a lot of time and resources monitoring such blogs; I know from experience).

          My talk at Shmoocon next month will be an unclassified version of my counter-IED experience in Iraq. If you're interested and you're going, I'd be more than willing to stop and talk about it.
          "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

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          • #6
            Re: F-22 can't handle Date line

            By 'overtaken' I mean insurgents run in kill all the occupants, take what they want, and leave. In most cases they video tape it too which is why I'm convinced. If the video's are fake they have some of the best FX people I've ever seen.

            I know judging based on watching Internet videos is senseless, and meaningless, but given recent events it's on the same level as judging based on the word of officials, and people who served. In the end 3rd party's have to look past the propaganda from both sides to see what's really going on.

            Another thing that's unfortunate is it's difficult to discuss world issues now because in presents itself as sensationalism to people. Everyone has the issue so glorified it's demeaning. Especially since Guerrilla has become a trademark in media schemes who try to separate them selves.

            Also it's a good thing I hijacked this thread. It didn't stand a chance(LOL...)
            Last edited by VAX_to_PBX; February 27, 2007, 13:25.

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