oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

[Deviant Ollam]

Bump Key Perspective from Schlage

Long used by certified locksmiths and other authorized professionals, bump keys – also known as bypass keys – are not ordinary, everyday items, but rather professional industry tools like pickguns and lock picks, which have been used for decades by locksmiths to help individuals rightly access their homes and personal belongings.

Regrettably, the bump key and related bypass techniques are now being promoted broadly via the Internet and hacker organizations, increasing awareness that stretches well beyond the community of licensed locksmith professionals and creating the possibility that professional locksmith tools could be used for illegal and inappropriate purposes.

what is the world coming to?

man, i used to recommend Schlage to a lot of people concerned about bumping and picking attacks because i like their Primus line of products. now, well, i won't stop mentioning that they are a good design, but if they keep up chatter like this their name will be mud with me a little bit. (bonus points to the first person to get the joke tucked in there.)

[DJ Jackalope]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

I think I will have to grab me another can of Pork Soda.

[bascule]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

I ended up going with a Schlage Primus on my house, but the guy at the lock store didn't seem too impressed. Apparently the patents for duplicating keys have lapsed (mine's patent 4,756,177) and, so he claims, they're easy to pick for a sidebar lock. But hey, at least they're bump key proof... as long as someone doesn't make a sidebar bump key.

A friend of mine has a newer Primus and it includes both a sidebar and standard tumblers...

I'm beginning to think to satisfy my inner paranoid I should've just bought a Medeco Mortise Cylinder... spose I could upgrade...

[renderman]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

Bump Key Perspective from Schlagewhat is the world coming to?

man, i used to recommend Schlage to a lot of people concerned about bumping and picking attacks because i like their Primus line of products. now, well, i won't stop mentioning that they are a good design, but if they keep up chatter like this their name will be mud with me a little bit. (bonus points to the first person to get the joke tucked in there.)

There's a few jokes in the original post as well. As for yours it's not like you ahd alot of respect for any lock company to begin with.

The joke in the OP is that I'm a licensed locksmith and a hacker, how does that make them feel? Also, most tools can be used for legal or illegal uses, i.e a hammer can be used to pound a nail, or pound a skull.

[mouseling]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

Why is it that in the US the first response of all corporations is to try and shoot the messenger?

Why is it that Barry and Toool-nl can bring a vulnerability in a European lock to the attention of the manufacturer, and the company listens and issues the lock equivalent of a patch, yet if we try to do the same thing here, the corporations use every means at their disposal to try and discredit the person who first made the vulnerability known.

From what I understand, European also locks have to meet a certain, testable standard, in order to be approved by Home Insurance companies.

US lock manufacturers may make whatever claims they like.

I know there are no simple answers to these questions, I'm just ranting.
Sometimes I despair.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Custodimus!

(but, who watches the ones who watch? We Do!)

[xor]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

Some of my favorite picks: :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daZdV...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm2j0...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2poy...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeM4F...eature=related

Will work most of the time :-)

xor

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

Apparently the patents for duplicating keys have lapsed

that's a shame. many people do not know, but the whole logic behind "restricted" keyways is the notion that copyright/patent of the design makes it possible for a manufacturer to restrict key blanks. now this is a legal roadblock, not a technological one, but it's a shame to see it fold due to the 7 year issue.

so he claims, they're easy to pick for a sidebar lock.

i don't know how much i'd agree with that one, i have to say. i sure as shoot wouldn't want to take a stab at picking a Primus.

at least they're bump key proof... as long as someone doesn't make a sidebar bump key.

there is no bump key that can be made for a Primus at all. Even if you know the sidebar code, there is virtually no way that a key could be cut and used. The finger pins that interact with the side bar do not just lift, they rotate based on pressures up from below. Use of a bump key would knock them out of position on each blow. The only way i could conceive of a person even trying to do this would be to sandwich two pieces of metal together... one that acts like the side-milled channel (and which would remain stationary during the process) and another piece of metal with the bump ridges that could whack in and out of the lock next to the piece mentioned above.

Making the pieces that thin would almost certainly make the metal too weak to effectively perform the bump, unless you're talking titanium or something.

[theprez98]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

If you read the book Freakonomics, one of the central themes is that certain professions (real estate agents for example) exist and thrive on information. Their speciality is enhanced by restricting the information available to the "average" person. Real estate agents consistently get a higher % of the asking price on their own house as opposed to your house, because they know the right information, the right "buzzwords" in the house description, etc.

The same seems to apply in the case of the locksmith. Their informational advantage begins to fall apart when this information is widely disseminated. While I don't think this is a threat that will ultimately undermine the locksmithing profession, I can see how it could perceived as such.

The Internet in general has degraded the information advantage held by those professions that thrive on it.

[beakmyn]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

A nice interview with Mr. Tobias.

Mark Tobias and Tobias Bluzmanis picking Medeco3 locks and a real quick bumping at the end.

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/...6/ff_keymaster


Always fun.

[shrdlu]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

...that certain professions (real estate agents for example) exist and thrive on information. Their speciality is enhanced by restricting the information available to the "average" person....

The same seems to apply in the case of the locksmith. Their informational advantage begins to fall apart when this information is widely disseminated. While I don't think this is a threat that will ultimately undermine the locksmithing profession, I can see how it could perceived as such.

The Internet in general has degraded the information advantage held by those professions that thrive on it.

I just noticed this comment, and wanted to play devil's advocate for a moment.

There is a local certified Master Locksmith, and we've even had chats on this issue. He's all for more knowledge, and thinks that it might bring good people into the profession. He's made keys for me for an old cedar chest that had to be built by hand (and charged very little for that), and is truly an artist.

Good realtors are also not threatened by opening up the MLS. I'd rephrase your sentence slightly.

"The Internet in general has degraded the information advantage held by those professions that thrive on it, where the bottom third of that profession is dependant on that knowledge remaining secret."

[xor]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

Only adding to this post as this was recently in the news here, and because shrdlu started it

I have a Primus as well. Primus on the top and a Kwiset on the bottom for letting the maintenance people in. The Kwiset also serves as a temp lock if I go out to my car. This way if I leave my keys behind all I need is a credit card to do a movie pick.

Schlage should be less concerned about lock sport and more concerned about tightening up their distribution chain.

http://www.idnhhoffman.com/file.asp?...pdf&C=articles

This also ties into our world as advances Telephony have made it easier to run operations like this nationally even globally and make them look local with most earth people having no clue until it's too late.

xor

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

I have a Primus as well. Primus on the top and a Kwiset on the bottom for letting the maintenance people in. The Kwiset also serves as a temp lock if I go out to my car. This way if I leave my keys behind all I need is a credit card to do a movie pick.

if you put a basic SC-1 schlage on the bottom (i'm assuming you mean this is a key-in-knob door handle) you'd have backwards compatibility with your Primus key and could have one less key on your chain.

[obsinisize]

Re: oh noes!!1! teh h4x0rz are bumping!!

...Schlage is working with other members of the lock industry...

Its a shame that they're not working with the Lock Community in place of the Lock industry.