Ready For CarTorrent.....?

[Lowie]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

The problem is 100 hrs in routine traffic doesn't train you to handle a car in an emergency. You might learn not to smack the car in front of you in heavy traffic, or even to merge onto a highway correctly, but you don't learn things like how a car's center of gravity shifts in extreme braking, and how that effects the handling.

How many of those hours were spent practicing getting out of front-end skids? Back end skids? Or practicing the correct maneuver to avoid a pedestrian stepping into your path? I could go on, but I'd be very surprised if you even had one day on a course like that.

And it's good that you learned slippery conditions during the winter course, but what about the students in the spring-summer semesters? That's part of the basic problem, there's little consistency even within the same school system, never mind the same state.

Not to mention the fact that every advert you see, including road safety adverts, shows a vehicle coming to stop by locking it's wheels. It's ingrained in peoples minds from an early age that the most efficient way of stopping a vehicle is by locking the wheels, or skidding if you wish.

And no, anti-lock brakes aren't the answer, as untrained and uninformed people learn via this system that you can just push as hard as you wish on a brake pedal and the vehicle will come to a stop. A very handy way of ensuring an accident when that person ends up in a non-ABS vehicle.

But I think I've digressed from the original point....

[Thorn]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Well, I don't know about how things were before I ever took Driver's Ed, but it sounds like a different experience where you were Thorn.

We were required to do 20 hours (if I remember correctly) with the instructor, as well as another 100 hours or something outside of classes before being able to pass. The instructor drive times were always taking place at 6 AM, when it's still dark and you drive for 2 hours. These drives started in the school parking lot, then went to town driving, and eventually highway driving. Considering that it goes from dark to light in this time, you get the full spectrum that you would normally drive in at any time.

It seemed like a fairly effective system... except for the fact that until last year, drivers could get an unrestricted license at 15 in MT =)

edit: I also took the winter course, which, in MT (considering how icy the roads are and stuff, you learn to drive in bad conditions as well.)

The problem is 100 hrs in routine traffic doesn't train you to handle a car in an emergency. You might learn not to smack the car in front of you in heavy traffic, or even to merge onto a highway correctly, but you don't learn things like how a car's center of gravity shifts in extreme braking, and how that effects the handling.

How many of those hours were spent practicing getting out of front-end skids? Back end skids? Or practicing the correct maneuver to avoid a pedestrian stepping into your path? I could go on, but I'd be very surprised if you even had one day on a course like that.

And it's good that you learned slippery conditions during the winter course, but what about the students in the spring-summer semesters? That's part of the basic problem, there's little consistency even within the same school system, never mind the same state.

[Suriyawong]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Well, I don't know about how things were before I ever took Driver's Ed, but it sounds like a different experience where you were Thorn.

We were required to do 20 hours (if I remember correctly) with the instructor, as well as another 100 hours or something outside of classes before being able to pass. The instructor drive times were always taking place at 6 AM, when it's still dark and you drive for 2 hours. These drives started in the school parking lot, then went to town driving, and eventually highway driving. Considering that it goes from dark to light in this time, you get the full spectrum that you would normally drive in at any time.

It seemed like a fairly effective system... except for the fact that until last year, drivers could get an unrestricted license at 15 in MT =)

edit: I also took the winter course, which, in MT (considering how icy the roads are and stuff, you learn to drive in bad conditions as well.)

[0x58]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

[...]

I've read that other nations (Germany comes to mind, but i may be confusing them with somewhere else) have a much more rigorous process like what you describe. It takes a lot of training time and is a considerable cost. If a student fails to pass their driver's exam (which is much harder than our mere questions and short road test) they are out a considerable chunk of money and have to wait and try again later.

I am originally from the Netherlands, my cousin recently went and got her license. It cost her $1500 for training (20 hours of training) and one extremely rigourous written test. Failure to pass it would have meant a 2 month wait minimum, and another $1500 would have needed to come to the table.

She made it the first try, but many kids don't. Most young people that don't work outside of where they live tend to just use bikes, and or the public transportation that is available. Costs less, and in general with the amount of traffic that is on the roads in The Netherlands, taking the train/bus is considerably faster.

It cost me a total of $55 dollars to get my current license. $25 for a permit in NJ, $10 for a NJ drivers license, and $20 to get it all switched over to Arizona. I never did the driving classes, instead I trained with my dad for a good 50 hours before he let me drive on my own, including 20 hours while there was a sheet of ice/snow on the ground. I learned how to control a car very quickly/well.

[xor]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Sometimes, the typos speak more to the meaning than the word that was meant to be typed.

Yes, I am the king of the classic typos :-).

xor

[streaker69]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Actually because driving is a "privilege" in this country and not a right if the will was there they could very easily do what they want.

But as the character Jack Sparrow pointed out in the movie Pirates of the Caribbean

Jack Sparrow
Wherever we want to go, we go. That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and sails; that's what a ship needs. Not what a ship is. What the Black Pearl really is, is freedom.

Which is really commentary on our lifestyles and our love of cars and what they mean to us and our society as a hole; freedom. My college RTF teacher would be so proud :-)

xor

Sometimes, the typos speak more to the meaning than the word that was meant to be typed.

[xor]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Actually because driving is a "privilege" in this country and not a right if the will was there they could very easily do what they want.

But as the character Jack Sparrow pointed out, opps that's Captain Jack Sparrow; sorry, in the movie Pirates of the Caribbean

Jack Sparrow
Wherever we want to go, we go. That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and sails; that's what a ship needs. Not what a ship is. What the Black Pearl really is, is freedom.

Which is really commentary on our lifestyles and our love of cars and what they mean to us and our society as a whole; freedom. My college RTF teacher would be so proud :-) This is also why you should go to college for moments like this. :-)

xor

[streaker69]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Well that would make a few really cool chase scenes on COPS, but then later where's the fun?

Easy, public executions.

[barry99705]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

State Police should have their own Apache's with Hellfire missiles. You shoot the first couple of people that decide to run, chases end before they start afterwards.

Well that would make a few really cool chase scenes on COPS, but then later where's the fun?

[Greyhatter]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Since my buggy is 1HP, sometimes 2 if I feel like drag racing, everyone else should be licensed accordingly.

Yea and "everyone" that regularly uses the roads and berms should have licenses and pay road taxes?

[streaker69]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Sure! A skidpad can be a fun time.

I did a few chases in the years I was in uniform. They are scary and dangerous as hell, but I have to admit, there is a certain macho ego-boost to chasing a bad guy at 100 MPH and then catching his ass. Ending them quickly be remote control would make the whole aspect a lot less scary.

State Police should have their own Apache's with Hellfire missiles. You shoot the first couple of people that decide to run, chases end before they start afterwards.

[Thorn]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

I'll have to get you to show me some moves Thorn. Well one promising thing about this new technology could mean is no more high speed pursuits as entertaining as they are to watch on TV. TRUTV one of my favorite channels. Suspect runs, license plate, to VIN, to car MAC, shutdown order, end of chase.

I figure if you do run and haven't lost them in the first 3 - 5 minutes you mite as well just pull over and give up. The longer you run the less chance you have of getting away. I love these guys that wait until like half the state police force is on their tail, plus several helicopters before they decide to bail.

xor

Sure! A skidpad can be a fun time.

I did a few chases in the years I was in uniform. They are scary and dangerous as hell, but I have to admit, there is a certain macho ego-boost to chasing a bad guy at 100 MPH and then catching his ass. Ending them quickly be remote control would make the whole aspect a lot less scary.

[xor]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

I'll have to get you to show me some moves Thorn. Well one promising thing about this new technology could mean is no more high speed pursuits as entertaining as they are to watch on TV. TRUTV one of my favorite channels. Suspect runs, license plate, to VIN, to car MAC, shutdown order, end of chase.

I figure if you do run and haven't lost them in the first 3 - 5 minutes you mite as well just pull over and give up. The longer you run the less chance you have of getting away. I love these guys that wait until like half the state police force is on their tail, plus several helicopters before they decide to bail.

xor

[Thorn]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

see... that's a really interesting point that I had never considered before. Actually licensing people based on types of vehicle and not just driving conditions or time of day. Naturally, it's hard to make enforcement anything more than a secondary offense (imagine the outcry over "that officer pulled me over for looking too young") but I like the concept.

My concept of how drivers' licenses should be issued parallels the way pilot's licenses are issued currently. We've taken it forward in recent years by going to the CDL system and having 'stepped' junior licenses, but I there are still too many people on the road who shouldn't be driving anything more complicated than a tricycle.

[streaker69]

Re: Ready For CarTorrent.....?

Licenses should probably also be graduated, based on GVW and horsepower.

Actually I agree with that. Since my buggy is 1HP, sometimes 2 if I feel like drag racing, everyone else should be licenced accordingly.