Ninja party is canceled this year

[cereal76]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

"Excuse me officer, I know that the property has asked you to remove these people from the premises, but you may note, I am a Goon. Now unhand this man and allow us to return to our debauchery post haste!"

uhm, debauchery? I was at the DC groups meet.

Anyways, I don't want to hijack the thread, and I know that once things escalated to a certain point there was little that could be done for anyone. That's really not what I meant by my post anyways, although now that I re-read it, it sounds that way.

I just find it curious that people are now just figuring out that the Riviera really doesn't care about the con or it's patrons. That's all.

[icetre]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

Chris:

I think his point is more, that people should have taken notice that this was a growing trend and was generally harsh treatment for the acts performed. A bad precedent was set right from the get-go.

Not to harp on what happened to me, but...

I specifically worked with the housing coordinator, Toni Goldsmith, telling the hotel exactly what to expect. Toni rented me that room stating, "If I were holding a gathering, this is the room I'd chose." Considering that NO OTHER party had ever worked with the hotel in that fashion prior to our party and they knew exactly what to expect: I find their actions to be despicable.

They were informed I'd have my own booze.
They were informed I'd have my own food.
They were informed I'd staff the event myself, and provide my own security.
They were told to expect a rotating crowd of 50-100 people.

Still I was hit with fines that I was not informed of even though I talked with the hotel numerous times and they could have told me at any time that I was violating some policy and to expect punishment.

Their tactics are only slightly short of extortion and entrapment.

This is not to even mention Riv security tried to have me **PUT IN JAIL** by having an undercover *underage* security agent say he was staying in my room in front of LVPD and several witnesses (which no one in the room had *ever* seen that kid before and the 'stuff' he allegedly stored in my room was no where to be found.)

The previous story isn't even one I ever whined about.. Point is, if they did it to me, *why* did the other parties think they were impervious. The Riv hasn't treated *any* of us fairly *yet*

Yes I know the local workers are actually quite friendly. I'm pretty sure I'm putting the maid for top of the riv's kid through college; it's all upper management and the security office.

When I tried to tell people this was a problem, I was told I was over-reacting. I firmly believe people thought I was just working to try and wiggle out of my punishment, even though I stated numerous times that I'd accept the consequences of my actions, but was worried about the others and the conference.

I think overall the point is; You need to pay attention to evil injustices happening around you, even if you can't do anything to help them today, they might be coming for *you* tomorrow.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly did you expect us to do?
"Excuse me officer, I know that the property has asked you to remove these people from the premises, but you may note, I am a Goon. Now unhand this man and allow us to return to our debauchery post haste!"

No one has ever disagreed that you guys got hosed, but to constantly act like we could do anything about it is getting a tad irritating. So tell me, what was the staff supposed to do to help you? If the hotel calls Metro on me I can guarantee you that nothing can be done. It's between the hotel, me and metro at that point.

[Dallas]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

Yea, I remember that night, we were VERY careful about ID's and such, that kid came from nowhere at almost the same sec everyone from the PD to Sec showed up. In retrospect it was a setup.

Chris:

I think his point is more, that people should have taken notice that this was a growing trend and was generally harsh treatment for the acts performed. A bad precedent was set right from the get-go.

Not to harp on what happened to me, but...

I specifically worked with the housing coordinator, Toni Goldsmith, telling the hotel exactly what to expect. Toni rented me that room stating, "If I were holding a gathering, this is the room I'd chose." Considering that NO OTHER party had ever worked with the hotel in that fashion prior to our party and they knew exactly what to expect: I find their actions to be despicable.

They were informed I'd have my own booze.
They were informed I'd have my own food.
They were informed I'd staff the event myself, and provide my own security.
They were told to expect a rotating crowd of 50-100 people.

Still I was hit with fines that I was not informed of even though I talked with the hotel numerous times and they could have told me at any time that I was violating some policy and to expect punishment.

Their tactics are only slightly short of extortion and entrapment.

This is not to even mention Riv security tried to have me **PUT IN JAIL** by having an undercover *underage* security agent say he was staying in my room in front of LVPD and several witnesses (which no one in the room had *ever* seen that kid before and the 'stuff' he allegedly stored in my room was no where to be found.)

The previous story isn't even one I ever whined about.. Point is, if they did it to me, *why* did the other parties think they were impervious. The Riv hasn't treated *any* of us fairly *yet*

Yes I know the local workers are actually quite friendly. I'm pretty sure I'm putting the maid for top of the riv's kid through college; it's all upper management and the security office.

When I tried to tell people this was a problem, I was told I was over-reacting. I firmly believe people thought I was just working to try and wiggle out of my punishment, even though I stated numerous times that I'd accept the consequences of my actions, but was worried about the others and the conference.

I think overall the point is; You need to pay attention to evil injustices happening around you, even if you can't do anything to help them today, they might be coming for *you* tomorrow.

[Abby_Normal]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

Yea, I remember that night, we were VERY careful about ID's and such, that kid came from nowhere at almost the same sec everyone from the PD to Sec showed up. In retrospect it was a setup.

Of course it was.

If you recall, their reason for coming in to the room last year was a lie as well. They claimed to have a report of "something" being thrown out a window, which changed every time they brought it up. We didn't hand out any drinks in anything other than small plastic cups.

LVPD came in, said there was nothing illegal going on and left. They seemed annoyed at being called.

The Riv has never been honest, and have tried to screw all of us every chance they get. What kind of hotel rents you a room with a bar in it, then charges you for a bottle opener?

I've gotten better and more professional treatment from the Embassy Suites, hell, even a motel 6!

The sooner the Riv is gone the better.

[[Syntax]]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

I think the whole don't use facilities on the premises is the best way to go. Not using their bars, restaurants, or casino in protest. Im also for the whole camel back thing.

Im wondering if this is the result of management finding that casino and bar revenue went down during the convention, or just them trying to squeeze another nickel out of everyone regardless of hotel profits during the convention.

[mfreeck]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

I think the whole don't use facilities on the premises is the best way to go. Not using their bars, restaurants, or casino in protest. Im also for the whole camel back thing.

Hey now, don't pervert the camelbak idea into some sort of lame "protest."

What will you achieve with the protest? How will this action translate into your goal being achieved? What is your goal, precisely?

How many people will "protest?" 10? 100? 200?
The riv isn't going to notice such numbers. It would have to be every con attendee to be noticed. Such a thing would have to come right from DT, as such a power move would have to be well thought out by someone with all the information and the leadership to have someone listen to him. Even then, it may or may not have the intended effect. Otherwise, this protest is just an impotent emo charade followed by an insignificant number of people.

BTW, are you staying in a room at the Riv? That is supporting them just as surely, even if you did not directly pay for the room.

[Abby_Normal]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

Hey now, don't pervert the camelbak idea into some sort of lame "protest."

What will you achieve with the protest? How will this action translate into your goal being achieved? What is your goal, precisely?

How many people will "protest?" 10? 100? 200?
The riv isn't going to notice such numbers. It would have to be every con attendee to be noticed. Such a thing would have to come right from DT, as such a power move would have to be well thought out by someone with all the information and the leadership to have someone listen to him. Even then, it may or may not have the intended effect. Otherwise, this protest is just an impotent emo charade followed by an insignificant number of people.

BTW, are you staying in a room at the Riv? That is supporting them just as surely, even if you did not directly pay for the room.

This year we can't help but stay at the Riv, but I think trying to spend as little money as you can otherwise should send a message.

Don't gamble, don't use thier bars, don't get food at their food court.

But everyone will have to do it for it to be noticed.

I think the biggest message we can send is when we leave.

[Gadsden]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

I personally like the idea of having Flea "Assclub" everything he can.. especially the phones. Photos are a must!

[converge]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

But, where else can we locate such fine cuisine and hotter slots?? And with the Riv's tight grip on alcohol in Nevada .. surely we are fucked.

Seriously though .. it sucks the Ninja party is out, but I am *confident* that a group of us sitting around an empty room can come up with _something_ extremely fun to do somewhere in Vegas that approaches a level of debauchery.

Discussing coordinated plans to take down The System at the hotel hosting us on a public forum, that Riv management/workers probably tail due to relavance .. is probably not so fruitful as it sounds in your head and not going to instill a sense of good faith in the Hotel staff that we disagree with.

It's extrememly late in the game to come up with a coordinated plan for fun .. particularly off property. Let's find spawning points to meet up with friends and decide where to take the fun from there.

I'm of the opinion that we don't have to jeorpardize Defcon or the Riv to have equal or greater fun. We just have to think before we do.

[cereal76]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

Seriously though .. it sucks the Ninja party is out, but I am *confident* that a group of us sitting around an empty room can come up with _something_ extremely fun to do somewhere in Vegas that approaches a level of debauchery.

Until we get shut down. I'm pretty sure, with what's going on around us, we'll be reduced to a bunch of flash mobs this year.

[Abby_Normal]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

Until we get shut down. I'm pretty sure, with what's going on around us, we'll be reduced to a bunch of flash mobs this year.

I'm sure there will be stuff to do. The problem I see is by breaking up the big gatherings they have caused many, many smaller, often floating ones.

So instead of containing the fire in one place, they've caused them to spead all over the place. Way to go Riv, good thining there.

I really think the Riv thinks if they kill all the fun, and take away all the parties, we will give up and be good little sheep and go spend money in their casino and bars. They don't know us very well.

I wouldn't gamble at the Riv if it was the last casino on earth.

[converge]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

I thought smaller, roaming, regular parties were part of what people missed from the Alexis? I'm normally a glass is half empty kind of guy, but I think a lot of potential for positive is being overlooked, especially without burning Defcon/Riv as a whole.

I see over-organization on the part of attendees as being one of the largest detriments to the current Defcon outlay. 85% of folks show up for the show being made for them, 10% doing random things and 5% organizing stuff for the other 85% to show up to. Many folks in the 5% have been wanting to drag the 85% into this, while a fraction of the 10% is kicking back wishing Defcon were the way it was 'back in the good ol days'. More and more people are taking part, but doing so by starting more over-organized events leaving the others to think that is the requirement and not the extraneous.

While many of the projects turn out amazing, not *everything* has to be a large, coordinated, overthought contest/event/undergoing. Four long strips of duct tape and 8 smashed players gets an impromptu hallway game of drunk-tac-toe. <$100 and a trip to walmart gets you a pool filled with pudding. These are dumb ideas .. I'm confident much of Defcon is brighter than me. Harmless fun. Do it dammit.

People need to show up, be themself, and aim for a goal.. I personally like common drunktitude.

[r3db0x]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

Don't gamble, don't use thier bars, don't get food at their food court.

Did you ever? Ew.

While many of the projects turn out amazing, not *everything* has to be a large, coordinated, overthought contest/event/undergoing.

Hear hear. This is why we have cell phones, forums, Twitter and so on. Also why we have eyes and ears. My favorite parties are always the impromptu gatherings of like-minded drunks... Large, uber-organized events get to feeling like a night at a club - something most of us could do outside of DefCon.

As a con-goer who already has half a hotel room full of decor loaded into a box ready for dispersal in a Riviera Standard, I say, bring on the grassroots endrunkening!

[Ne0nRa1n]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

I don't really drink, and I've never drank at a DEFCON. (I've had one sip of alcohol in the nine years I've been going.) I must admit though that this situation has me seriously consider starting just so I can buy booze somewhere else.

It is obvious that the Ninja party has been totally screwed over by the Riv. I don't blame them for calling it quits. It is obvious they are fighting a losing battle. I don't blame them for not wanting to do anything offsite either, because it isn't 'part' of DEFCON then. It becomes something else.

The truly sad thing is that you just know this is going to affect the rest of the 'private' parties this year too.

So, I am going to do the only thing that I can do until DEFCON moves to another hotel and try to give the Riv as little as my money as possible, and encourage others to do the same. Yes, I know we aren't talking about a lot of money here - but I have no desire to PAY someone for the honour of letting them fuck my friends over.

I will keep a flask on me so I don't support their bar. I will bring instant oatmeal and eat in my hotel room instead of eating their food for breakfast.

I mean, what else can one do? I am into fucking shit up as much as the next person, but not at the risk of making the conference pay for it.

[Dark Tangent]

Re: Ninja party is canceled this year

Just so everyone knows, searching for a replacement location is a nightmare that takes a lot of work by a lot of people. I always like to keep my eye out, just to make sure we are competitive with our hotel contracts, but I will be doing a search of Vegas to see what, if any, alternatives exist.

DEFCON 17 is signed for the Riv, 2009, but after that anything goes.